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TRANSCRIPT OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN MARIA SHAND {RIGBY COOKE) WITH

AMANDA TOBIN ON MONDAY 16 AUGUST 1999 AT THE OFFICES OF MAR.SHALL

MARKS KENNEDY 179 ELIZABETH STREET, SYDNEY AT APPROX. 4PM

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Amanda:

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"So I'll pop that on and this is Amanda Tobin at 10 to 4. Um, I'll just pop that there

and make sure the sound's up, yep we're all go. Um, I guess the first thing I wanted to

ask you about was um, what your sort of current positions are, you started talking about

that as well just that I get a feel "''~''*"

"Um, I work for myself as a business at ';''* Girls School, Kincoppal Rose Bay and

that's my main source of employment"

"How do you spell that?"

"K-i-n-c-o-p-p-a-(double 'l') a-1, sorry, Kincoppal then Rose Bay yeah, a-1, one 'l'"

"Uh"

"Rose Bay, yeah"

"Rose Bay school?"

"Yep"

"Is it secondary or ... "

"It starts from Prep right through to Year 12"

"And what do you do there?"

"I'm a tennis coach"

"Full time?"

"Full time, yep. That's my main source of employment, um, I am also assistant state

coach, women's state coach for New South Wales"

"Is that a paid position or a volunteer's position?"

"It's a paid position as in I do all their state squads which naturally am paid for that, I

" "So you mean you do them, you select them or coach them?"

"No coach them, yeah. Another hat is I'm a New South Wales selector so I do pick the

state squads as well"

"Selector for, is this just women's?"

"Women's yep. I'm also a national selector"

"For Tennis Australia?'

"Tennis Australia"

"For Women?"

"Yep. I'm on the board of the New South Wales Coaches Association"

"Yeah"

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"And I'm on the Play Development Board"

"For?"

"New South Wales, yep"

"Tennis?"

"Yeah"

"**"'< hats"

"Yeah"

"Cause you made it. So you're um, so how do you knowLJ or when did you first

t~" mee L__J

"I've probably k.nowrl because she's been involved in the program for, since she

was probably around ~s been in state squads, so um, or she may have even been

14 but I've known her for a few years. Um, and this case sort of came to me through

her coach which was jsxo luh, she rang me at home one night because she

was heading ... "

Maria: 'jsxo I rang you?"

Amanda: 1axo I rang me at home one night ... "

Maria: "Do you remember when that was?"

Amanda: "All I could say it was before August last year because I have a letter fromj'-ax_0 ___ _,

when she'd gone back to '@@'M"@'and it was dated in August last year. So it was sort of

before then .. "

Maria: "Well before?"

Amanda: "I'd say it was probably a month before she left to go back but I wasn't, I don't know if

she went back in July or June, do you know what I mean? It's somewhere around that

U time, mid-year''

Maria: "So she rang you?"

Amanda: "She phoned me at home to see whether I would be interested in taking over ~iax_J_~ when she left and I said, yes, I suppose so if she can get herself to school because

school's full time and it 'd have to be done at school other wise I can't do it. She then

proceeded to talk regarding the squads at the moment, as in state squads at the time,

um, Noel's involvement with state squads"

Maria: "And what was that?"

Amanda: "Re: dealing with girls and how ... "

Maria: "What did she, what did she say to you?"

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Amanda: "Uh, that she was frightened about him being involved with the girls and that he

shouldn't' be and that you know something should be done and he shouldn't have that

position"

Maria: "did she say why?"

Amanda: "She said that he had messed up too many lives basically and I thought OK, so I

wasn't' sure were she was coming from at the time. Um, we proceeded to talk a little

more about where she was basically coming from"

Maria: "what did she say?"

Amanda: "She never has actually stated to me not in that conversation what he did to her, OK

um, she did say that she knew of two ...

[tape 9- side 1]

Maria:

Amanda:

Maria:

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"So we were talking abou,~s-xo __ ~!s conversation with you, she said that she knew of

two people .... "

"And she felt there would be more but she knew of two for sure um ... "

"Two for sure that what?"

"He had involvement with, that wasn't, uh, what's the word, like involvement that

wasn't really the right type of involvement, I don't' know how you want to word it ... "

Maria: "Did she describe what she referred to it as?"

Amanda: "No, right, so"

Maria: "So she didn't say who those people were?"

Amanda: "She stated that LJ this one, but she said, I said what are you talking about, cause I

mean I think what's important and I have stated this with New South Wales tennis

when the matter came to hand to me, I felt I had to do something and I didn't know

what t o do, right? and the person I probably had the most, faith's not the right word,

but the uh, she has been involved in tennis for so long was Dorn and that's when I

contacted Dorn Fogarty and she said to leave it to her, which I did"

Maria: "So let's just come back to that conversation"

Amanda: "Back to that, yeah I know, sorry"

Maria: "that's alright"

Amanda: "So ... "

Maria: "Solsxo jbasically feared that Noel shouldn't be there, that she knew of two people,

she felt there would be more that he engaged in some inappropriate or sexual

behaviour"

Amanda: "Inappropriate, yep"

Maria: LJas one of them"

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Amanda: "Yes"

Maria: "Did she say anything more about her or what?"

Amanda: "She felt with~ she felt that I was best to find out **'~because she felt more if

LJopened up to me than her telling me and I said OK. So time went on she left,

she went overseas,l6XJ ~d start to come to school for lessons and I'll be honest I

instigated a conversation one day by saying um, can you tell me, you don't have to

answer this question um, but can you tell me did Noel ever make any suggestive

comments or anything like that and that's the exact way I worded it and ... "

Maria: "So any suggestive comments or anything like that?"

Amanda: "Yeah"

Maria: "Yeah"

Amanda: "And she basically just went '~'}"\ like half laughed and then proceeded to tell me what

had happened"

Maria: "And what did she tell you?"

Amanda: "She'd been coached by him for several years, he would often offer to drive her to

White City where they were being coached He would often touch her the legs, the

breast, stuff like that on the way in, in the car. Often while they would be on court,

they'd often be discussing on court things, it would be often sort of not tennis related

it'd be sort of you know suggestive remarks"

Maria: "Did she give you any examples?"

Amanda: "No, no. Um, she proceeded to tell me about a camp she went to at Sydney Uni and I

suppose that was what um, made me more you know, um, worried I suppose because it

was more it seemed more forced ... "

Maria: "What did she tell you .. ?"

Amanda: "She said that he had come to her room um, and he came back to her room after. He'd

come there twice and when I think, no sony I shouldn't say I think, but I'm trying to

recall, but he came back a second rime because she hadn't gone to her room, or his

room or whatever and then he was on top of her and basically tried to force himself'

Maria: "Did she describe what she meant by that?"

Amanda: "Just he was on top and you know, I'll be honest I didn't really get want to get too into

it, do you know what I mean?"

Maria: "Uh huh"

Amanda: "Um, only for the reason that I think it is hard enough for her anyway um, he [tape

off???]

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Maria: "Um, so can we perhaps just carry on, we were talking about wn, she said this is the

conversation you had withjBXJ I LJ bad with you, she said there was a camp at

Sydney Uni um, he made me wony he came to the room, be came back twice, he was

on top her and um, he tried to force himself on her"

Amanda: "Uh huh"

Maria: "What else did she say happened?"

Amanda: "She had mentioned that they'd been smoking dope and that he was intoxicated at the

time"

Maria: "Who had been smoking dope? All of them?"

Amanda: "Well had been, no, not the kids, no sony, my fault. Um ... "

Maria: "H e'd been smoking dope and he was ... "

Amanda: "Intoxicated, drunk. Um, That the following day ... "

Maria: "Did she tell you what she did then?"

Amanda: "She made a phone call I think to a friend of hers that ended up, I don't know if he

came and picked her up or what, but the following day when she was on court, she just

said that he was that rude to her, that um, you know she basically he was just horrible,

he swore at her in front of the other kids. I don't recall what happened, why he swore

at her, I don't recall that far, that he was just very aggressive on the way be spoke to her

and really put her down and that's sort of, that's where all of this sort of came into play.

I mean that was a lot stronger I felt than you know the, I mean I don't, at times you

think well, you wouldn't get a lift with him is he was doing this. I don 't suppose I find

it hard but that is something that was um, quite heavy and then something that I think

we if it is proven to be true and I'm, I wasn't there, nobody was there at the time um,

U but it's something that yes, you could see that could happen or I'd stop with my

dealings and I'd already had contact with 1sxo ~d my, I suppose, my knowledge of

Jsxo I. there's no reason why these two I feel would lie. I mean they can't gain

anything from it anyway, do you know what I mean? Their tennis is over, not over,

O s still playing, but fsxo I has nothing at all to gain from it um, andLJ I

asked why nothing was said at the time or why didn't she come forward earlier and she

felt he could hurt her in his role, so ... "

Maria: "So you say hurt, how?"

Amanda: "As in he could stop her from basically destroy her tennis and because of the role he

had um, she also felt that she was you know, people would see her as being wrong and

that's one fearj~sx_o _ _..~as, you know, um, it's just sad"

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"So this was the conversation at the courts at school after a coaching session and how

did it finish up?"

Amanda: "I'd said to her well gee, she also was worried that people within Tennis New South

Wales wouldn't listen because they were so, feel they were so Noel"

Maria: "Pro-Noel?"

Amanda: "Yes, pro-Noel, yep. Um, and I just said look I think you've gotta understand that

there are people that will listen but only you can decide whether you want to take it

further and then next I hear they were in, this was ages back because she's been

overseas, she actually went overseas and stayed with LJagain, um, she's been

overseas again I think playing satellite, so I haven't seen her for quite a while and then

next I hear they were in at White City, they had planned to have a meeting which ... "

Maria:

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"When you say you hear, who told you?"

"Well I was told by both D d Bob, Giltinan that they were going in and I wasn't

allowed. to attend"

"Did you want to?"

"I, bit mixed feelings, do you know what I mean? I had, I suppose I'd said to both girls

that people would listen so I felt a bit obliged to them, but then I do work for New

South Wales Tennis and I suppose there's a bit of a conflict. 1 didn't, you know, I, in

my heart I felt I should be there, work-wise it was probably better not, I don't know,

it's been difficult, I feel"

"Yeah. So um, so she told you, this conversation you had with her um, was that your

courts one day? ... "

"Yeah at Kincoppal"

"Do you remember when approximately that was? I know that was a hard question,

was it in um, 98?"

"It would've been last yea?

"Last year yeah?"

"It would've been last year" BXD iBXD I "Was it afte had gone? Or before~--~had gone?"

"Yes afte sxo had gone"

"So it'd ibe after August some time?"

"Yes, or around August cause I got a letter fro~,_Bx_0 _ ___,lin August"

"Is that letter something I need to know about?"

"No,*"'* has got copy of this, I didn't bring it in, sorry ... "

"That's alright"

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Amanda: " ... but I've got a copy of it"

Maria: "So you got a letter fro~=sx~o-~p So what did it say?"

Amanda: "Just, it basically said that she hears that there has been some grounds made on the

Noel Calaghan case, that's good to hear, finally sometbing's being done. Again about

his hurting people right, don't' think the word used is destroying, I'll have to go home

and have a look, but along those lines right. It was only, the letter covered a lot of

things but that paragraph was only ... "

Maria:

Amanda:

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"So have you given a copy of that letter to someone?"

"Yeah to Dom, Dom has a copy of that"

"Dom?"

"Dorn Fogarty''

"So have you been in touch with LJsince that letter or ... ?"

isxo !had wrote a fax toBXJ e: um, that was before I think she went into the

last meeting. I've spoken to sxo probably twice"

"Did she say anything about any o t 's?"

"What about? Her ... "

"or~" "Just wondering what's happening, but she, :LJhas not opened up to me re: what

happened to her, all I know is that it went for quite a long period of time, um and she

said she is willing to take it legally, that's all I know with what she thinks, do you know

what I mean, but I know she feels quite strong about it"

"IBxo ts not associated with New South Wales tennis is she?"

"No"

"She's never had a role ... "

"She was a top player but not actually with New South Wales"

"Was she coached by Noel?"

''Yes"

"Is that while he was state coach?"

"Not when he was state coach, before"

"So that's basically what LJs told you. Has she told you anymore about what

happened? No, OK. HowwoUld you describCJ as a person? Is she ... "

"Uh, she .... "

"How does she interact with other people?"

"she's a fun-loving kid, basically, I think people and that**'}. Noel came to>}*''* in

public"

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Maria: "In what way?"

Amanda: "He makes out she sleeps around and tarts around and all that stuff"

Maria: "And what does, I don't understand what you mean? What does he say?"

Amanda: "well I'll say exactly what he said with the conversation early this year that I had, cause I

phoned up him, cause she was frightened. She wanted to joint the post-junior squads

that were on at White City earlier in the year, her name's still on there ....

[tape 9 - side 2]

Maria: "Sony you were saying your conversation with Noel..."

Amanda: "Yep, I knew what the criteria for these squads were and because Noel and Carolyn I

had discussed them in Melbourne andLJwas a bit wary about seeing whether she

could attend and I said well I'll phone, there's no reason why you can't I mean, so I

phoned him. And he said basically, I'll be swearing, can I swear pr?"

Maria: "Of course you can, say it how be says it"

Amanda: "Fuck you're kidding, I asked whetherLJcould then t'*'~ lie said Fuck you're

kidding! She'll distract the whole squad, the boys won't be able to play, she'll be out the

back saying, next! That's his exact words. I..."

Maria: What did you say to that?"

Amanda: "I proceeded to not to get into that conversation and I just said Well I feel her playing

ability fits into the criteria and he said Oh well I suppose I can't say no. I said well I

feel it's very difficult for you to say no. And he then obviously, I gather he obviously

then felt well he didn't have me in on the conversation backing his so he cooled right

back then and just said Oh well I suppose so tell her they're on at such and such time

and yes she can attend"

Maria: "What did you take from that conversation, she would distract the whole squad she'll

be out the back ****What did he mean by that, or what did you understand him to

mean?"

Amanda: "H e basically meant she'd sleep around and ... "

Maria: "I mean was there any basis whatsoever from what you know oLJ that there's any

basis to that suggestion or statement?"

Amanda: "No, I mean she's had her haircuts like any kid does I suppose. But there's no basis

that we had or you know I would imagine that he's got unless he's you know he's put

off because she's knocked him back I mean and that's, that is something I've looked

into these sort of things since I've heard about this, and that is a reaction that they tend

to do, you know and I just from comment that come out in his manner in front of any,

it doesn't need to be kids like~· it can be any child just worried me, cause they're

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not the right things you should talk about in front of, as I said before, 14, 15, 16 year

old girls"

"What sort of things, when you've mentioned that he had a bad image ofi:=J what

sort of, and you've also mentioned before when you were at um, Pitchford Park, was

it?"

Amanda: "Primrose Park"

Maria: "Primrose Park, that he told you the dirty jokes and comments and ... "

Amanda: "Oh well the jokes when, before when I mentioned that, that was often made at squads,

state squad"

Maria: "What, I mean what's a dirty joke to someone, might not be to another, what sort of

jokes would he ... "

Amanda: "Oh well you know, crude"

Maria: ''Was he referring to female sexual ... "

Amanda: "Yeah things in jokes you know I mean, and I, that was one of the biggest reasons why

I did actually go into talk to Craig early, but ... "

Maria: "So he sort of, are you saying that in all the time you've known him, he's been like that

or is this just only recently?"

Amanda: "No he's always been like that I think"

Maria: "So you were saying~ a fun-loving kid although Noel paints a bad image of her,

is she flirtatious or ... "

Amanda: "Oh I don't know. To a lot of other people she comes across pretty quiet if they don't

know her, right, but if you, if you get to now her she's a bubbly kid, you know I mean, I

don't know, that's the way I read her, you know I mean"

Maria: "It's certainly already been suggested to me by his lawyer that, that um, that that is the

sort of um, information Noel will tell me is that she's the sort of girl who is as you

described he would call her as a um. .. "

Amanda: " ... a tart"

Maria: "Yeah. Those words haven't been used, but that's the impression of what I think

Noel's going to tell me so ... "

Amanda: "Yeah sure, OK"

Maria: "What do you say to that sort of description of EJ Is that how you see her from

your dealings?"

Amanda: "I would not from my dealings, no"

Maria: "Have you seen her interact with boys and men?"

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Amanda: "No, I can't honestly say, I've um, in my time I was coaching her a boy that she was

seeing would come to the courts, bring her to the courts and he was involved in tennis

also um, the only thing I ever saw from those tow was that he was there, extremely

supportive for her tennis and there was nothing that led me, like there was nothing that

it would see that would say she was that way inclined. I mean I think, and then this has

been carrying on for a little while, because you know I look at squad at times when I

Maria:

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was doing it beforehand and then I stopped for a period in between and likelexJ jwas in the squad's at those times and I might come in and we'd do a count of numbers or

things like that and he'd say, rd say oh well so and so's not here yet or you know if it

weret:=) it could be anyone, but if I made the reference oh Li's not here yet, oh

yeah she'd be out on her back somewhere. I mean but this was in front of kids too and

I mean and that's, oh I don't know ... "

"Where you involved in the selection of squad in 98?"

"98?"

"With the under 18 or 16 squad?"

"State squad?"

"Yeah"

"I would've been, yeah"

'LJwas in the 1997 squad, but missed out on the 98 squad"

"Right .. "

"Do you know why that was?"

"I would not, I'm just trying to recall um"

"Last year's squad"

"Yeah last year. We were, we were getting yowiger children to come up through the

squad, right um, we did keep some of the older children in .... off hand I can't say, I

really can't recall I'm sorry ... "

Maria: "Is Noel, the selectors are yourself, Dom and ... "

Amanda: "Carol"

Maria: "Carol, does Noel have any involvement in selection?"

Amanda: "Yeah he, he would um, when he was assistant coach he would have had an input on

how they form that squad, when he has become state coach we have to take, we have

the final say on state squad, we don't on **'' but on state squad we do have the final

say. Um, but he has his input, yes"

Maria: "do you recall him making any comment aboutl~=~}"

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Amanda: "Not to me but he would've probably been assistant then, I don't think he was

employed as state coach then, so Craig would've been coach then state coach"

Maria: "What was your reaction be to the suggestion and it's not my suggestion, that she

missed out on that squad because she had rejected Noel, on this occasion that you are

talking about?"

Amanda: "It's hard to say on how much input he may have had"

Maria: "Because you can't remember or because ... "

Amanda: "I don't know what he may have said to Craig, cause Craig was in charge then, Craig

Miller, right so, Noel was assistant state coach at the time, there was no assistant

women's state coach it was just a male, oh well not a male position but he had that

position and he did have a quite rapport with Craig um ... "

Maria: "But Craig wasn't ' a selector either?"

Amanda: "Oh no, no but Craig was state coach at the time, right, so we relayed things to Craig ... "

Maria: "But you had the final say"

Amanda: "Yeah would've had the final say and I don't recall that as being a reason why, so ... "

Maria: "that's OK it's just come up as a suggestion and um, so not from j0XJ ~'

Amanda: "NO that's alright"

Maria: "So since all this has come out in terms of~ have you done or said anything to

anyone about it in terms of follow that up with New South Wales or other people

Amanda:

Maria:

Amanda:

Maria:

Amanda:

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or .. .?"

"I spoke to Dom right, because as I said earlier, I um. .. "

"And she said leave it with me"

"I felt that ... "

"Cause Dom's coming in tomorrow"

"Oh is she, OK. I felt it was the only person to take it to was Dorn and then we spoke

to Carol so the 3 of us spoke together"

"Not that it's relevant to my enquiry, but what do you think should be done?"

"On what?"

"Just these allegations"

"I'd hate to be New South Wales Tennis"

"Why's that?"

"Because I think it will go legal anyway"

"What do you mean by that?"

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Amanda: "Theill take it to the police, they will, I know, I mean um sxo eems more um,

what's the word, not hurt, more um affected than not so much th I think

LJactually feels Ok cause she, nothing like the full way it happened, you know, well

this is what I'm told. Whereas wirhjsxo I it did, so um,[axo I is obviously hurt I

think or she's affected"

Maria: "Do you think~thought this all up because she wants to or because other people

have put pressure to do this?"

Amanda: "No, I don't know her an~axo !have talked a lot about it um, I know on a point

Maria:

that with New South Wales Tenn.is I, she as I said to you before, I hadn't heard like

about it much cause she'd been away and stuff like that and then all of a sudden they're

going into see Craig, you know. And they did tell me that that's what they were doing

um, only because I mean um, Bob rang to say that there was a meeting with Craig

Watson and that he wanted the 3 selectors there and I'm like, so I spoke to Dom and

Carol and said what should we do? Cause we were aware of it, that this had sore of all,

it wouldn't, it's not quite a year but it 's quite a long time after the initial contact with say

myself and Dom happened, right and not a lot on that side had really moved" ·

"You only had the one conversation that time that you asked her what happened.

Where there any subsequent conversation when you talked further?"

Amanda: "Not of any substance you know"

Maria: "I mean about the incident I mean. Was it just that one occasion where she spilled her

beans so to speak and said this is what happened and. .. "

Amanda: "Basically I asked her, she would, I mean if I hadn't asked she wouldn't' have told me

and I only asked becauselsxo lhad told me, right"

Maria: "So it was just that one time ... "

Amanda: "And we were concerned about - so that's why like ... "

Maria: "So what's happened with your concern abouc'j1'f''1 .. " Amanda: •• I only know this secondhand so I have not been told officially but um, Dom

has been told that, that there has been reference to New South Wales re: ­

through other people, apparently some bloke that was in the team that was in the team

said that, something's happened"

Maria: "**~ I don't really have any other questions I don't think um, unless you wanted to say

anything else you think might be relevant or you had any questions"

Amanda: "No I um, .... "

Maria: "Perhaps you can tell me as assistant coach, for New South Wales, have you ever

received the Tennis New South Wales coaches code of conduct?"

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Amanda: "We all have the coaches code of conduct"

Maria: "Whose code of conduct is it?"

Amanda: "New South Wales coaches, coaches code of conduct as in?"

Maria: "The Coaches Association one?"

Amanda: "Yeah"

Maria: "And that's the body that your accredited with?"

Amanda: "Yeah"

Maria: "Which is in turn accredited to ... "

Amanda: "Tennis Australia"

Maria: "Tennis Australia"

[tape 10- side 1]

Maria: "We were just talking about New South Wales Coaches Association and accreditation

um, tell me what the processes in terms of when did you receive, in your case, when did

you last received that? Is it something that comes out every year when you register?

What's the process?"

Amanda: "No, no we, you get one like your code of conduct and ethics when you first become a

Maria:

Amanda:

Maria:

Amanda:

Maria:

Amanda:

Maria:

Amanda:

Maria:

Amanda:

Maria:

Amanda:

Maria:

member, I know that we've done a big change um, on that over the last, here goes, over

two and a half years ago, I've taken a bit of a stab in the dark there um ... "

"So does it say anything about .... "

"Oh well we've had it ... "

" ... relationships with athletes and things?"

"Uh, we've had a case that came up but that was with children under age that we had to

deal with um, I suppose that's the most relevant thing I've had close to that, do you

know what I mean?"

"So when you say we've had to deal with are you saying as you role ... "

"The Board of New South Wales coaches"

"So from your understanding and I appreciate that you don't know for sure, would

Noel have received or should have received that code?"

"WE all received it"

"OK. I haven't seen a copy of that"

"No"

"Have you got access to one, that you could give to me?"

"I can get one, yes"

"Yeah, 0 K. If you could fax it to me that would be really good. UM and do you, do

New South Wales have their own one? Or do they just rely on this one?"

~ Jc~ 1 0

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Amanda: ""I don't know, I've never been given one"

Maria: "You've never been given one"

Amanda: "No, from New South Wales Tennis"

Maria: "Tennis, yeah"

Amanda: "But you know we all, we all have to be accredited by the coaching body if we're going

to get a position with New South Wales Tennis, right"

Maria: "Right"

Amanda: "So I say the big picnrre is they think well we've got our code of conduct for our

coaches ... "

Maria: "And what happens if you breach the code, not you, if a coach breaches the code?"

Amanda: "Um, well we, the Board deals with it, basically"

Maria: "And, taking the example of the one you said you referred to did you discipline the

coach or remove their accreditation or what?"

Amanda: "He has no accreditation anymore"

Maria: "OH so you removed the accreditation? Yeah so that's one of the things you can do.

And has New South Wales Coaches Association a separated incorporated body, is it?"

Amanda: "Yes it is and um, we are affiliated with New South Wales Tennis and we have a

national body as we spoke about before, which is affiliated with Tennis Australia"

Maria: "OK, so would you have a copy of the uh, rules about this process, about what you

do?"

Amanda: "Yeah"

Maria: "Yeah. It may be that Craig's got one but, um, Craig Watson but I thought if you did

that would be ***"

Amanda: "Yeah"

Maria: "Um, OK well unless you've got anything, unless you can think of anything else that,

any other discussions you've had with~ .. "

Amanda: "No, no. Naturally I, because I have coached her ... "

Maria: "Are you still coaching her?"

Amanda: "No, I um, with school and with the whole I mean set up, I mean she, she will you

know she came over a couple of times after she was away because it sort of fitted in but

then my timetable was, at school was full and she wants an hour and a half or two

hours at a time and I just don't have that time free at school, so that's where it was

awkward, but it was never in a position where it was like you know she'll, not that she

has needed to ring me on help for that, but it wasn't left on a bad note, do you know

what I mean? Sometimes kids leave coaches or things like that. But it was never left in

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that way but um, I the guy I worked with at school he helps with the um, squads, post­

junior squads down at White City and he often sees her down there, so ... "

Maria: "OK"

Amanda: "I can relate with him and ask how she's going"

Maria: "Um, I just had Bob in before, as you would have seen and uh, he told me that he had

some concerns that that Noel had not selected somebody because of his daughter,

because of the relationship •}•}*, do you know about that?"

Amanda: "Didn't select his daughter, or ... "

Maria: "Yeah"

Amanda: " ... he wouldn't have had, I mean we would have the last say on that anyway in the state

squad situation, I know he wasn't' overly happy, but um you know that's, once again

that's something, when it comes to a state squad level, we we'd have the final say"

Maria: "It's not the head coach's role anyway, it's not the state coaches role?"

Amanda: "No, no, not to fix state squad"

Maria: "OK. Yeah I don't think that there's anything else at this stage, I mean there may well

be some things that come up later if I can perhaps give you a call if they do ... "

Amanda: "Yeah sure"

Maria: " ... or if you have any questions or queries you, or clarifications you can then please call

me otherwise um, if you can shoot me that New South Wales Code of Ethics ... "

Amanda: "Yeah sure"

Maria: " ... that would be good"

Amanda: "So are you in Sydney for a while? or what?"

Maria: "I'll just tum the tape off, now"

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