ALEC Calls for Penalties on 'Freerider' Homeowners in Assault on Clean Energy--The Guardian

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Solar panels on a home in Los Angeles. Alec will promote legislation planning topenalise individual homeowners who install solar panels. Photograph: Cultura/Rex

An alliance of corporations and conservative activists is mobilising topenalise homeowners who install their own solar panels casting themas "freeriders" in a sweeping new offensive against renewable energy,the Guardian has learned.Over the coming year, the American Legislative Exchange Council (Alec)will promote legislation with goals ranging from penalising individualhomeowners and weakening state clean energy regulations, to blockingthe Environmental Protection Agency, which is Barack Obama's mainchannel for climate action.Details of Alec's strategy to block clean energy development at everystage from the individual rooftop to the White House are revealed asthe group gathers for its policy summit in Washington this week.About 800 state legislators and business leaders are due to attend thethree-day event, which begins on Wednesday with appearances by theWisconsin senator Ron Johnson and the Republican budget guru andfellow Wisconsinite Paul Ryan.Other Alec speakers will be a leading figure behind the recentgovernment shutdown, US senator Ted Cruz of Texas, and thegovernors of Indiana and Wyoming, Mike Pence and Matt Mead.For 2014, Alec plans to promote a suite of model bills and resolutionsaimed at blocking Barack Obama from cutting greenhouse gasemissions, and state governments from promoting the expansion of windand solar power through regulations known as Renewable Portfolio

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ALEC calls for penalties on 'freerider'homeowners in assault on clean energy Documents reveal conservative group's anti-green agenda Strategy to charge people who install their own solar panels Environmentalists accuse Alec of protecting utility firms' profits

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Standards.Documents obtained by the Guardian show the core elements of itsstrategy began to take shape at the previous board meeting in Chicagoin August, with meetings of its energy, environment and agriculturesubcommittees.Further details of Alec's strategy were provided by John Eick, thelegislative analyst for Alec's energy, environment and agricultureprogram.Eick told the Guardian the group would be looking closely in the comingyear at how individual homeowners with solar panels are compensatedfor feeding surplus electricity back into the grid."This is an issue we are going to be exploring," Eick said. He said Alecwanted to lower the rate electricity companies pay homeowners for directpower generation and maybe even charge homeowners for feedingpower into the grid."As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentiallyfreeriders on the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure theyare using. In effect, all the other non direct generation customers arebeing penalised," he said.Eick dismissed the suggestion that individuals who buy and install home-based solar panels had made such investments. "How are they going toget that electricity from their solar panel to somebody else's house?" hesaid. "They should be paying to distribute the surplus electricity."In November, Arizona became the first state to charge customers forinstalling solar panels. The fee, which works out to about $5 a month forthe average homeowner, was far lower than that sought by the mainelectricity company, which was seeking to add up to $100 a month tocustomers' bills.

Gabe Elsner, director of the Energy and Policy Institute, said the attackon small-scale solar was part of the larger Alec project to block cleanenergy. "They are trying to eliminate pro-solar policies in the states toprotect utility industry profits," he said.The group sponsored at least 77 energy bills in 34 states last year. Themeasures were aimed at opposing renewable energy standards, pushingthrough the Keystone XL pipeline project, and barring oversight onfracking, according to an analysis by the Centre for Media andDemocracy.Until now, the biggest target in Alec's sights were state RenewablePortfolio Standards, which require electricity companies to source ashare of their power from wind, solar, biomass, or other clean energy.Such measures are seen as critical to reducing America's use of coaland oil, and to the fight against climate change. RPS are now in force in30 states.In 2012, Alec drafted a model bill pushing for the outright repeal of RPS.In the confidential materials, prepared for the August board meeting,Alec claimed to have made significant inroads against such clean energypolicies in 2013."Approximately 15 states across the country introduced legislation toreform, freeze or repeal their state's renewable mandate," the taskforcereported.

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That compares to model bills in just seven states in support of the hot-button issue of the Keystone XL pipeline, according to figures in thedocuments."This legislative year has seen the most action on renewable mandatesto date," the documents said.Three of those states North Carolina, Ohio, and Kansas saw strongpushes by conservative groups to reverse clean energy regulations thisyear.None of those efforts passed, however, with signs of strong local supportfor wind farms and other clean energy projects that were seen as goodfor the economy from Republicans as well as Democrats.By August, Alec evidently decided its hopes of winning outright repeal ofRPS standards was overly ambitious.At its meeting in August, Alec put forward an initiative that would allowutility companies to import clean energy from other states rather thaninvest in new, greener generation.An "explanatory note" prepared for the meeting admitted: "One modelpolicy may be the right fit for one state but not work for another".Elsner argued that after its bruising state battles in 2013, Alec was nowfocused on weakening rather than seeking outright repeal of theclean energy standards."What we saw in 2013 was an attempt to repeal RPS laws, and when thatfailed what we are seeing now is a strategy that appears to be pro-clean energy but would actually weaken those pro- clean energy laws byretreating to the lowest common denominator," he said.The other key agenda item for Alec's meeting this week is the EPA. Thegroup is looking at two proposals to curb the agency's powers one toshut the EPA out of any meaningful oversight of fracking, and the otherto block action on climate change.A model bill endorsed by the Alec board of directors last August wouldstrip the EPA of power to shut down a frack site or oil industry facility.That would leave oversight of an industry that has to date fracked 2mwells in 20 states to a patchwork of local authorities that have vastlydifferent standards of environmental protection.The model bill would explicitly bar the EPA from shutting down any oil orgas well or facility in any of them, limiting the agency's capacity toenforce the clean water and clean air acts."The legislature declares that the United States Environmental ProtectionAgency lacks the authority to deny permits of operation to these oiland gas wells and facilities," the bill reads.Eick said the bill was in keeping with the group's broader philosophy ofexpanding power to the states."A national regulatory agency might impose a cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all regulation on states in many instances," he said.The meeting will also focus on Obama's plan, announced last June, touse the EPA to limit greenhouse gas emissions from future and existingpower plants."The EPA's forthcoming regulation of greenhouse gas emissions andspecifically carbon emissions from power plants will be of incredibleinterest to states and membership so we are going to be focusing onthat. Absolutely," Eick said.Power plants are the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions,

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accounting for about 40% last year. The EPA last September proposednew standards for future power plants, and will tighten limits for existingpower plants next June.

Alec says requiring tougher standards would lead to spikes in electricity prices andwould damage the economy. Photograph: Rex Features

"It just shows that Alec uses lawmakers as lobbyists to block climatelegislation at every turn," said Connor Gibson, a researcher forGreenpeace. "They try to undermine the authority of agencies that havethe power potentially to control carbon pollution, so whenever there is anew EPA rule that pops up, they re-tool their arsenal of model bills tomake sure they are blocking the new rule."The resolution on the EPA for Alec members' consideration this weekargues that requiring tougher standards from the next generation ofpower plants lead to spikes in electricity prices and would damage theeconomy."Alec is very concerned about the potential economic impact ofgreenhouse gas regulation on electricity prices and the harm EPAregulations may have on the economic recovery," the resolution reads.Environmental lawyers said the resolution amounted to a "new manifesto"against the EPA regulating carbon pollution. "They don't want the EPA toregulate greenhouse gas emissions," said Ann Weeks, legal director forthe Clean Air Task Force.She disputed a number of claims within the Alec resolution includingthe assertion that reducing carbon pollution would lead to an 80% rise inelectricity prices. Economic analyses by the EPA and others havesuggested those rises would be fairly limited."They will probably tell you they don't want the EPA to regulate anythingso it is in their interest to turn what the EPA has proposed into somethingthat is grotesque and unreasonable, which I don't think is true," Weekssaid.

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18 PEOPLE, 20 COMMENTS

Show 17 more replies Last reply: 06 December 2013 11:15pm

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jessydarnsmith

Google and Facebook recently joined ALEC that should give you an idea of wheretheir priorities lie.

04 December 2013 6:04pm162


SikOseph jessydarnsmith

Really? But I thought Google's motto was 'Don't be evil'? Aren't they on ourside?

04 December 2013 6:49pm38


CharlesSedley jessydarnsmith

Guess that shoots Google's "Do No Evil" motto all to hell.04 December 2013 6:50pm

98

tyrosinekinase SikOseph

B. Kiddo: "Guess that makes him a liar, don't it?"04 December 2013 7:14pm

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SteveK9

These guys are despicable, but they are right about this. Bunch of rich eco-dilletantes get money from low-income workers for their useless solar panels, sothey can feel good about themselves.



imupset SteveK9

@SteveK9 -Can you read?! The article clearly states:

The group sponsored at least 77 energy bills in 34 states lastyear. The measures were aimed at opposing renewable energystandards, pushing through the Keystone XL pipeline project, andbarring oversight on fracking, according to an analysis by theCentre for Media and Democracy.

It is not a question of "rich eco-dilletantes" stealing money from the poor"for their useless solar panels." It's about some of the largest companiesforcing everyone to buy from them and accept their anti-earth agenda. Justwondering, did you take your meds today?

04 December 2013 6:13pm307


Jesse Britton Coleman SteveK9

huh? Explain why I should pay a utility up to $1200 a year for solar panelsthat i already bought and installed? What could that fee be except a way ofkeeping people from producing their own electricity from renewables?

04 December 2013 6:18pm273

SelfServingShite Jesse Britton Coleman

@jesse coleman - you don't have to pay the utility company for panels you04 December 2013 7:06pm

12




suprabrew

In South America (?), a private foriegn company bought the local water utility, thencharged outrageous rates for water to the impoverished population and criminalizedthe collection of rainwater. The people rose up and chased them out of town. We inthe west must stand up to these repeated abuses of human rights. theft of freedomand privacy and economic exploitation.

04 December 2013 6:05pm224


ParkSlopeSquirrel suprabrew

Are you thinking of the plot for "Quantum of Solace"?04 December 2013 6:16pm

9


FrankTilghman ParkSlopeSquirrel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Cochabamba_protests04 December 2013 6:35pm

59

BlackjackX suprabrew

Is there a better way than making the kinds of ACTS committed by lil alec a04 December 2013 6:37pm

10



Boredwiththeusa

First, a quibble: ALEC is an acronym, and as such needs to be in all capsthroughout the article.Second, what insanity. They offer nothing, no solutions.




BarnsleyBandit Boredwiththeusa

The accepted case usage of acronyms depends largely on thepronunciation. Thus Nato but UN, Unicef but WHO. At least that was how itwas at Reuters and that is how it is in the Guardian style guide.



Boredwiththeusa BarnsleyBandit

Then the Guardian style guide is wrong, and should be amended. I've neverseen NATO referenced in a newspaper in lower case, or UNICEF.Acronyms should always be all caps to set them apart and let the readerknow they are in fact acronyms.That is particularly true in this case, where the acronym is also a propername. We are not discussing Alec. He is not germaine to the subject ofALEC.


vagues Boredwiththeusa

unicef write their own name in lower case, but it's all just about style.04 December 2013 7:07pm

4




UNOINO

Love to see one of these ALEC creeps try to explain themselves surrounded by theirchildren.



FoiledAgain UNOINO

My guess is that these creatures eat children.04 December 2013 7:05pm

128


LakerFan UNOINO

I can envision ALEC members cooking and eating their own children. Forfun.


Zepp LakerFan

They don't cook them. If they did, they wouldn't be able to eat them alive.04 December 2013 8:51pm

15



Jesse Britton Coleman

Corporate money goes in - pro corporate legislation comes out, that seems to behow ALEC's bill mill works. The real kicker is that ALEC plies elected officials withfancy parties and travel, funded by corporate donors, who then see laws passed thathelp the bottom line. And it is all tax deductible... We need to tell the IRS to do theirjob. Tax and lobbying laws aren't just for average people, ALEC has to follow themtoo.

04 December 2013 6:13pm120


bethegnat Jesse Britton Coleman

Corporate money goes in - pro corporate legislation comes outWelcome to 21st Century governance.


Cusperi Jesse Britton Coleman

The only solution is to have a very wide political menu and some kind ofproportional representation system. Have many political groups including




some ideological leftist political parties and an educated populace... Ifnecessary do what the Swiss do when they have referenda.Corporate dictatorship needs a first past the post or similar system with asfew political parties as possible (all infiltrated and owned). A left v rightdichotomy (in which the 'left' is quickly appropriated) is not good.

FrankBlank1 Jesse Britton Coleman

Absolutely. ALEC is and has been committing tax fraud. They are not a05 December 2013 3:14am

3




Micklemoose

I am beginning to think that the only proper way to counter such acts as this is bybringing back the guillotine.

04 December 2013 6:14pm119


LakerFan Micklemoose

We must admit that there is a fraction of the human population that has acongenital defect that results in dyspathy. A fraction are born without thenormal human emotions of love, empathy or concern for their society. It is apathology that needs therapy, beginning with what they lack: empathy.As Friedrich Nietzsche astutely points out: we should take care whenbattling with monsters lest we become one.



LakerFan Micklemoose

That being said; when we remove conservatism, we automatically remove99% of the world's evil.


samlebon23 Micklemoose

A laser guillotine will do the job. We are in the twenty first century, we need04 December 2013 11:08pm

9



ellipsis10

.As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentiallyfreeriders on the system. They are not paying for the infrastructure theyare using. In effect, all the other non direct generation customers arebeing penalised," he said

That's ridiculous. Solar generators are no different than, say, someone who lives inthe coal fields and is sitting on gas rights that they've leased, along with othermineral rights, to, say, Duke Energy or CNX. The property owner "produces" theproduct, and the energy company pays the infrastructure and distribution costs, theterminal fees, and regulatory costs.



vagues ellipsis10

You think that's *your* air you're breathing?04 December 2013 7:04pm

26


leonorp ellipsis10

doubly ridiculousif we install a $20K system, our property is assessed that additional $20Kas an improvement resulting in increased property tax (around 1.06%$212/yr or $18/month)

04 December 2013 11:07pm11


Zepp leonorp

You might want to double check that. A lot of states offer assessment05 December 2013 1:33am

5




rubbishuk

They cost $45 a month to keep on the system. If they do not pay at least thatamount, then fire the freeloader.No one should have to pay for these folks who abuse the system, why do I have topay for their hookup when it costs $45 to keep them connected.Fire them, no ROI, they be fired.



oisinwald rubbishuk

Let me guess: your name comes from the fact that everything you say isrubbish--and you live in the UK.



Dissident1 rubbishuk

They contribute more free electricity to the grid than that cost. That is whysuch acts of desperation are been peddled, so if you want to fire freeloadersthen go ahead. Let's fire the CEOs of the various dirty energy companiesbehind this alogical, amoral manoeuvre!

05 December 2013 2:19am36

photosymbiont rubbishuk

Or more to the point, it's hard to control the flow of sunlight to Earth and05 December 2013 2:36am

21



CharlesSedley

Any excess power that solar panels produce goes back into the grid.ALEC wants to punish power creators and reduce competition by what areessentially micro utilities.And yes, lets have a conversation about subsidies. Remembering that Keystone isessentially an admission by the GOP that no they really can't "build that" withoutgovernment subsidies.Nuclear subsidies? Lets start with Price-Andersen.



leonorp CharlesSedley

the US military massively subsidises oil companies04 December 2013 11:10pm

13


beachbear2012 leonorp

Aside from having 3 TRILLION dollars disappear from the pentagon andsecretary Rumsfeld say he would look into it and billions in cash packed onpallets in Iraq just vanish and a thousand other cash scams, the military isused to subsidize every contractor in any war zone, airlines to fly troopsback and forth, commissary and food producing companies in the us(NGO's) clothing manufactures, weapons manufacturers, computer makers(I won't even go there), and the list is endless. It's all about WAR andsupplying the "troops" who are "defending" us against a bunch of nomadswith pitchforks. In closing please no "patriotic" responses about treasonetc. If you want treason look at Washington or your own state legislator andmake your own informed decision.



atolley beachbear2012

3 TRILLION dollarsThat was most of the cost of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. It did not"disappear". I think you mean BILLION.



Connor Gibs

Ironic that ALEC's Eick claims to oppose "cookie cutter" regulations at nationallevel--their attempt to block national oversight on fracking and leave it up to thestates is for a simple reason: state regulators don't even begin to have the capacityto keep tabs on oil and gas fracking operations in their states.The irony is that ALEC's entire mission is to create cookie-cutter legislation, rolledout by its legislative members and bolstered by the Koch-funded State PolicyNetwork, the web of think tanks in every state that bolstered ALEC's clean energyattacks in Kansas, North Carolina and Ohio, a battle that is ongoing, led by ALECBoard member Sen. Bill Seitz.




Ron Jacobs

ALEC can take its profit motive and place it where no solar panel will collect anyenergy.

04 December 2013 6:28pm105


SanFranNative Ron Jacobs

Chuckling out loud. That doesn't happen often on the comments. :)05 December 2013 7:05am

3




AhBrightWings

How much more proof do we need that Big Business doesn't give a damn aboutanyone or thing other than its profit margin before it gets through that this is aruinous way to live?Way to demonstrate the mentality that those of us who care about environmentalissues decry. If anything, we should be offering massive tax breaks to those whomake an effort to be greener.



Braveshopper AhBrightWings

Rather like Ed Snowden who showed us the utter depravity of ourgovernments. And the U.S. wants to put him away in a prison.And will if they can get to him. It's not about clean energy, truth, environment, health, poverty.None of the above are money makers for the elite, rather the opposite.



Micklemoose Braveshopper

You belittle the eco movement by linking it to that primadonna.The destruction of our planet in exchange for the regular suspects buildinganother car elevator and the balance between liberty and security that mustbe reached in a modern democracy have about as much in common asALEC does with Mother Teresa.


Dolores Bardoneschi Micklemoose

Lovely to see how you bought the official spin on Snowden...!!! It's "1984"04 December 2013 8:40pm

19

5 PEOPLE, 5 COMMENTSBarnsleyBandit 50

Show 2 more replies Last reply: 05 December 2013 12:55am


This is ridiculous. Were I a US citizen in a region where I could live off-grid all yearround because of my own installed solar panels, I'd rather waste it than pay to sell it.In fact I'd look into hooking up a neighour for free if I had excess!

04 December 2013 6:30pm


24b4Jeff BarnsleyBandit

We live in Virginia, one of the most environmentally unfriendly states in theUS. We've been planning on installing solar power, and plan to do just whatyou suggest. In fact, the state's utility rate structure encourages just that,because the first 300 kWh is charged at the most expensive rate. The moreone uses, the lower the price per kWh; what a way to encourageconservation!Seeing all the idiotic right wing comments on this article, I think I'll take it astep further, and take my chain saw to the utility poles that cross myproperty. Those blood suckers install their infrastructure on private land,and pay no compensation for it. But I guess the ALEC supporters thinkthat's ok. Hypocrites!

04 December 2013 6:45pm113


vagues 24b4Jeff

lets be neighbours04 December 2013 7:03pm

11

Corrections 24b4Jeff

It's called an easement. Easements are allowed for the public good, for04 December 2013 8:35pm

1



bushtea

Freeriders? Why are people making profits off our utililties, which are givenprivileges and benefits that other companies do not have?



darquelourd bushtea

Yes, making use of Nature without compensating a Corporation for theprivilege is the height of FASCISM.



Dolores Bardoneschi darquelourd

Why is it that most people don't get that? It was the first thing I thoughtwhen I read the article.



CharlesSedley darquelourd

Yes, making use of Nature without compensating a Corporationfor the privilege is the height of FASCISM.

The CEO of Nestle has stated that access to water is not a basic humanright.


7 PEOPLE, 8 COMMENTSnorthstar

Power companies compensate direct generators who return energy to the grid byrolling their meters backward. This leads to the direct generator being billed for lessmegawatts each month.As an alternative to buying/installing solar panels on the roof of my house, I couldmake investments that improve energy efficiency (e.g. new windows, a higher-efficiency AC system, more insulation in the attic). This would also lead to mebuying less megawatts of power each month. Yet the cost of the infrastructurerequired to deliver the reduced amount of energy to my house is still there. Would



Report Share this comment on FacebookALEC argue that this would make me a freeloader as well?


24b4Jeff northstar

It depends upon whether you purchase the windows, AC system andinsulation from one of their contributors.



Terribleblodge northstar

I've no doubt the anti-American fascist scum from ALEC have a plan topass legislation requiring all citizens to pay a monthly tithe to the powercompanies. And more tithes to other corporations until Americans arereduced to poverty. Oh wait ALEC has pretty much already accomplishedthat last.


Corrections northstar

Look at the breakdown on your monthly bill. Surely you have a minimum04 December 2013 8:33pm

3

danielpfeiffer

This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by ourcommunity standards. Replies may also be deleted. For more detail see our FAQs.




Simon100

Looks like ALEC has a whistle blower in its midst. Love it! Keep writing about theirsliminess, Guardian. Everything that they do should put out there everyone to seeinstead of hidden away.



Braveshopper Simon100

Further, because you won't see it on the 6'o'clock news.04 December 2013 7:06pm

32


Noah Pierson Braveshopper

EXACTLY. If the Guardian had it's own news tv show it would be the onlyone I would watch.



photosymbiont Braveshopper

The reason you won't see it on the American corporate media is that thevery same investment banks (JP Morgan, Barclays, etc.) that are heavilyinvested in fossil-fuel-based electricity generation (the majority owners ofcoal, natural gas, and power utility corporations, and associated serviceindustries like coal-hauling railroads) are ALSO majority owners of all majornew corporations in the U.S. This is true across the board, from the 'liberal'MSNBC to the 'conservative' FOX News (the latter having a large Saudiownership profile, for example). They are not known for challenging theirmaster's PR lines, are they?



darquelourd

There is no rational explanation for the amount of political influence regressivegroups like ALEC exert on our legislative process and on our laws other than that ofMONEY.It's simply unconscionable that in an alleged "democracy" a group like this is able tosubvert science and rational debate - not to mention do real harm to the publichealth.





PracticeTrousers

Please stop referring to Paul Ryan as a 'budget guru.'04 December 2013 6:44pm

65


NigelRG PracticeTrousers

Yup. Read Krugman in the New York Times for the correct description. It'sprintable, barely.



gjwarco PracticeTrousers

Or use the following alternative: Always use quotation marks anytime thatbudget guru is mentioned. Example: "budget guru" Paul Ryan.


panpipes gjwarco

Or better yet "professional douchebag Paul Ryan".04 December 2013 8:21pm

14



Boredwiththeusa

There is no greater threat to the U.S. than ALEC. Al Qaeda can only dream ofhaving the destructive, corrosive power that ALEC has.



CharlesSedley Boredwiththeusa

With their connections in in the oil industry I fear that the link is muchcloser than we imagine.



SparshShroff

they should be careful lest the people realize they are the satan's minions indisguise.




Portlander

"As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially freeriders onthe system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they are using. In effect, allthe other non direct generation customers are being penalised,"This is flawed logic. A miniscule portion of homeowners are likely to be netexporters of energy. The vast majority will cover some or all of their peak daytimeloads. Some will be able to export energy during peak sunny times but will have todraw power from the grid at other (non-sunny) times, so they won't be net exportersof energy.The really sickening thing about this is that utilities generate power from multipleplants, prioritising more modern plants which are cheaper and less polluting. Duringpeak times is when they have to pull the crappy dirty expensive ones online tosatisfy demand, and that is exactly the times when solar panels can provide themost power (ie. high air conditioning loads at the same time as highest sunshine)


NigelRG Portlander

As a homeowner with solar panels, I can assure you that I d-mn well amforced to pay a monthly fee for the infrastructure that I barely use, and theutilities managed to rig the law so that I'm not paid if I generate surpluspower, on an annual basis.





CharlesSedley NigelRG

As a homeowner with solar panels, I can assure you that I d-mnwell am forced to pay a monthly fee for the infrastructure that Ibarely use,

Here here.


fivemack NigelRG

Yes, you have to pay for the infrastructure to get electricity to you; maybe it04 December 2013 10:02pm

1



vagues

Wow...this is surely fiction, amazing. Well done Guardian. ALEC - you appear to bethe worst people on earth.



JohnManyjars vagues

It is a case where appearances match reality.05 December 2013 6:32am

6


NigelRG

Please give generously to the the American Loonie and Evildoer Corporation. In linewith our policy of eliminating government subsidies, all donations are tax-deductible.




silat13

Since ALECK0CH does not like freeloaders, do they support national healthcare? ALECK0CH is an enemy of the state.



sovereignintegral silat13

generally speaking, ALEC is supportive of anything that disenfranchises usordinary folk



MarjaE silat13

The oppose laws limiting pollution. They support "right to work" laws. Theysupport freeloading when it's in their interest.



JohnManyjars MarjaE

3 reasons to vote 'conservative' in the USA, if you are 1) rich, 2) reallystupid, or, 3) a sociopath.


4 PEOPLE, 4 COMMENTSSelfServingShite

what people need to do is eff the utility company and go OFF THE GRID.there are two types of solar installation - off the grid costs a little more up front - butthen you have electrical independence, so to speak, and when everyone else issuffering through power outages - you'll be sitting cosy!




fivemack SelfServingShite

On the other hand, if you are off-grid in that sense you cannot get the powercompany to pay you for electricity you generate: if you generate moreelectricity than you can use or store, the rest is wasted.(you could of course be on-grid in the conventional sense, using the grid asbackup for your solar panels and batteries at times when it's dark and thebatteries are flat; the fee ALEC is suggesting would only kick in if you triedto feed electricity back to the grid)



Matthew Moore fivemack

I don't know about "wasted." If the ability to generate power throughrenewable, clean energy sources such as solar power isn't leveraged, thenthat is a waste. Otherwise, the sun just beats down on a roof and generatesnothing but heat. That's the problem with ALEC, they'd rather see uspenalized for harnessing a natural resource in a clean way, because thatdoesn't fatten the wallets of their corporate members. The solar panelindustry apparently need better lobbyists. Alternatively, lawmakers couldpass legislation based upon reason and the collective good and not rely onlobbyists at all, but that's crazy talk.

04 December 2013 11:11pm12


photosymbiont SelfServingShite

You'll need to buy and maintain a huge battery bank, and replace it on anongoing basis. It'd be better (more energy-cost efficient) to have a localenergy storage center serving your whole community - which means, youand 100,000 of your best friends in your locale can all go off-the-gridTOGETHER, saving lots of money (economies of scale in energy storage)while eliminating external control by fossil fuel-based utilities and theirbankster investors.Basically, everyone puts solar panels on their roofs and feeds that power toa township-sized energy storage/distribution center, which feeds it back toeveryone (at night, when the sun is down, or when the wind isn't blowing).You could do this with a village in Africa of 200 homes, as well, no problem.Set up mesh-networked telecommunications on top of each house whileyou're at it, and everyone can talk to each other without relying on anyexternal agency.This by the way is how stand-alone military outfits operate these days,ahem. But it can work for anyone!



FoiledAgain

I was considering building a solar array, but to stay on the good side of the depravedindividuals of ALEC, I'm going to build a nuclear-powered hog farm.




Cvillerealist

There is some irony here- to have liberals taking the side of people who use theelectric grid but don't want to help pay for it, as opposed to people who don't havethe resources or facilities to have solar panels who do pay for it thru electric rates. Itwould be like people in Britain who buy private health insurance saying they don'twant to pay any taxes toward the NHS



Zepp Cvillerealist

They're still paying for it. They have to shell out about $35-$50 a month justto maintain connection to the grid.



Marcus Marik Cvillerealist

"Realist" LOL! This spouting of nonsensical talking points repeatedlyrefuted above is about the least "realist" approach imaginable.



JohnManyjars Cvillerealist

I DO pay monthly for the privilege of being 'on the grid', dolt. What isannoying is that 'folks' like you would have me pay even more for the'privilege' of selling energy back to the utility, which they then sell tosomeone else!As I stated earlier, 'conservatives' have been on the wrong side of prettymuch every matter of importance in history, and this is no exception.Now back to licking the boots of your corporate masters, there's a good lad.



vagues

Perhaps they just dropped the first word?04 December 2013 7:14pm

1


Terribleblodge

As you can see there is good reason that Americans are trying to have this ALECterror group banned in our country.





gjwarco

I have a few more suggestions for ALEC.1. Charge a fee to anyone who uses a bicycle or walks - they're not buying any fuel.2. Charge a fee to anyone who does not use a toll road. The infrastructure is there,but certain freeloaders are not using it.3. Charge a fee to anyone who collects rainwater for use in their garden. Thesefreeloaders should be required to use tap water (from an existing infrastructure).4. Charge a fee to anyone who grows their own food. Again, the non-use of aninfrastructure.I guess that I could come up with a few more, but I don't seem to be as imaginativeas ALEC.



Cvillerealist gjwarco

You don't understand the difference between public infrastructure (i.e. apublic good) vs private infrastructure (to which the community has noobligation to contribute to)



sovereignintegral gjwarco

give them time. they ARE working on it, believe me. hopefully, we will,collectively, be ready. long over due for us to get off our butts and activate our brains.


Zepp Cvillerealist

The power generators in California are privatized. It's what lead to the04 December 2013 9:00pm

11

BlackjackX

The same peoples being discussed as lil alec' in the article, are the People Rapingthe people, workers, and retirees of Detroit! And their next target(s), are likely to beYou!A nation wide Strike is Needed; Best being a rolling strike. You can call it a WaveStrike! A Strike of the Fans of America for Fair and Equable Shares, Opportunity,Education Health and Justice!Its not happening Today! The 1% is doing a huge job of stealing! We're seeingBillion Dollar Wages! And a Major City being Robbed using corrupt people in 'Charge'to loot the City of Detroit, and the State of Michigan Peoples! Laws of the State are



being Trashed in this Bankruptcy by a RICO Law ABUSING GANG OFCONSPIRATORS!And! There is federal aid being provided this Gang! Understand Your in the Plan tobe looted! Actions are required!




blood1

The interesting part of the Arizona kerfuffle is that Corporate AZ has built a hugesolar grid in Casa Grande and it has put out news that they have actually started orproved that they have technology that stores excess solar power.If that can be scaled down to the home level - no wonder that Corporate Americanvia the power grid would be nervous...if the process works it can be scaled downand Corporate $$$ and power brokers would be huge losers.What amazes me about ALEC is that the GOP admit by joining that they areessentially lackey's for corporations - and are unable to think for themselves. Weneed to remember that ALEC is run via Corporations and Foundations - mostrecently: Coors pays $50K/ year and Bradley Foundation $75K / yr.



TyroneBHorneigh blood1

Not rewarding solar in a place like Arizona is like not using geothermal inplaces like Iceland.The potential energy is right there, local, abundant and virtuallyinexhaustible.



fivemack blood1

I'm always amazed how cheap lobbying is; you would at least hope thatthey charge Coors tens of millions rather than tens of thousands. If only Icould think of something that would profit a group of ten of my friends to thetune of more than $50k per year ...


Dissident1 blood1

When the automobile was first introduced, more powerful stagecoach and05 December 2013 2:51am

2


ahtman

as Americans see the practical applications of ALEC law policy in action, the morethey see it for what it really is. Power of the rich over the poor(subjugation)..a part ofhuman nature that needs looking after. The people who promote these policies andlaws are not he virtuous part of ourselves. If the rich are unhappy with the way theyare treated, try being gracious for once. GRACE people. you give it you, get it.



MiltonWiltmellow

That would leave oversight of an industry that has to date fracked 2mwells in 20 states to a patchwork of local authorities that have vastlydifferent standards of environmental protection.The model bill would explicitly bar the EPA from shutting down any oil orgas well or facility in any of them, limiting the agency's capacity toenforce the clean water and clean air acts.

Saboteurs!In exchange for mere gold these craven creatures destroy all that is good.May they rot in the hell they bring.


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ahtman

dreadful english just took my meds my apologies04 December 2013 7:30pm

2


hawkwoman

You can see how far the corporate plutocracy has come and how secure it feelswhen one of its most notorious agencies has the unmitigated balls to try stuff likethis.As the Black Widow in the eponymous film said, "The trick to anything is knowingwhen to stop."Hopefully, their new tactics show that ALEC really doesn't know when to stop - andthat will be its undoing.





Jeffrey_Harrison

Jeeze, I get tired of people lying. I've lived across the US and every utility - gas,electric, etc - has a fixed cost in your billing that pays for the infrastructure. Mycurrent electric company charges me $16.50/mo for their infrastructure even if I useno electricity. This "free ride" claim is purely made up and a barefaced lie.



TyroneBHorneigh Jeffrey_Harrison

Spot on Jeffrey.Thank-You for pointing that fact out. Any number of millions of Americanconsumers can look at their monthly bills and see that charge. ALEC'sargument is nonsense.Different corporations charge a sum whether you use a little, a lot orabsolutely none at all.



Corrections Jeffrey_Harrison

That's for the INCOMING infrastructure. Obviously an OUTGOINGinfrastructure would be additional. What needs to be clear is the true costfor that, which is why utility boards exist - to keep everyone honest. I haveno idea if $5/month is fair or not, but I understand that additionalinfrastructure needs to be paid for. If you're selling back, say, $75/month,why would you expect your neighbors to subsidize the $5/month cost thatcaused?I just want total transparency on the financials before making a decision onwho should pay for what.


Jeffrey_Harrison Corrections

Actually, the only outgoing infrastructure in question here is the meter that05 December 2013 12:55am

5


pfarnsworth

Greedy aholes....04 December 2013 7:45pm

11



FrancisHumboldt

my question is: HOWCOME ALL OF YOU COMMENTERS AREN'T TALKING ANDNOT ACTING!!! Those abroad, this concerns you too since this is a global violation.


northstar FrancisHumboldt

Actually, those of us posting from Minnesota already have. Or at least ourstate legislators did, when they addressed this issue by passing a law thisyear that requires the big generators to pay the smaller direct generatorsrates for grid-returned energy that better reflect the true value of that solarenergy to the big generators (something that has already been implementedon a smaller scale in municipalities like Austin, Texas).




Corrections northstar

Exactly. Transparency of the actual financial data is the first requirement toset up a fair system.



Hermione Goldman FrancisHumboldt

Excellent point Frances, what action are you taking?04 December 2013 11:58pm

0


robingeorge

I recently had a person selling sola panels at my door. I have eight on my roof toheat our pool they have worked for twenty years, heating from April until November.On reading the fine print if your roof is in the sun and can generate power for theduration of the sun light they come and if you singe up, it's a 30 year contract.However on further research over the internet I found the company basically sells onthe contracts in bundles to third party investors. Just like the debacle with themortgage industry. Nothing has been learnt from that. I declined but still they knock.In California and other sunny States, it's a good thing.I will wait until Ikea brings in sola panels and have them install and pay for themoutright. Thats why the Republican agenda does not want you to go it alone leavingnothing for them to bundle and sell on for inflated profits. Why are we not makingpanels here in the US? Why does China have the advantages of cheep labour andshipping? The government should be turning Detroit or other depressed cites intoSola factories, the great work force is there having built cars for years.Also large buildings in sunny state should be made to use smart glass to generatepower. In Las Vargas they should be made mandatory.



ColoradoJack

The basic problem is that we in the US have the most corrupt political system onthe planet. Almost Every politician from Obama on down in both major parties hasbeen bought by the big money interests.It is absurd that in America, running for President costs upwards of a billion dollars,and Senators and Congressmen and Governors and state legislators cost areproportional. That means that most of all politicians and officials time is spentcollecting the legalized bribery that the corrupt Supreme Court has legalized. Inexchange for this loot and the promise of lucrative lobby jobs and book deals andspeaking fees as compensation after the fact, these crooks in power agree to do thebidding of the super rich.




John Dagne

You should use solar to leave the grid not tie into it.04 December 2013 7:52pm

6


NigelRG John Dagne

Don't I wish, but with a system like mine, with one inverter per panel, itwould be fiendishly complicated. It's easier to pay the robber baron utilitiesto exchange power with them.



fivemack NigelRG

After all, even if they buy your surplus electricity at a cent per kilowatt-hour,that's a cent you wouldn't otherwise be getting.


JohnManyjars John Dagne

It would be difficult during the winter months, even in sunny Southern CA.However, the surplus I generate during the summertime balances slightly inmy favor overall. I am grateful for the use of the electrical grid (especially incase of trouble with my inverter) and am happy to pay fees for that, but for



these Republican f*^ktards to ask me to pay in excess of what I already dofor the connection fees...grrrrr....


Gerald Sobel

Google and Facebook can rot in hell too.04 December 2013 7:54pm

9



TyroneBHorneigh

Domestic terrorists.04 December 2013 8:02pm

26


leftcoastforever TyroneBHorneigh

Spot on.Absolutely agree.




86b99a

Republican budget guruPLEASE STOP calling him a guru. he is nothing more than a paid lobbyist for thinktanks.



JohnManyjars 86b99a

How about 'Not-think' tanks, or 'mouth-breather' tanks?05 December 2013 6:55am

3


babymamaboy

"As it stands now, those direct generation customers are essentially freeriders onthe system. They are not paying for the infrastructure they are using. In effect, allthe other non direct generation customers are being penalised," he said.Yes! Let's take a long look at all ALEC supporters and asses how much they pay forusing infrastructure. They won't even have to leave their own convention to find allthe freeloaders they can handle.




Xoxarle

Also, I can reveal, they are proposing:- a new sloth tax on people who aren't either CEOs or Billionaires- repeal of the child labor laws\- paid overtime to be a felony- lowering of the minimum wage- a new not-sufficiently-polluting tax on non-gasoline powered lawnmowers andautomobiles- action to melt the remaining glaciers and polar ice caps- declaring war on Switzerland (for flirting with caps on CEO pay via referenda)- [add more batshit insane nonsense as appropriate]



JohnManyjars Xoxarle

Except the committed rightwing dolt views this as entirely sane.05 December 2013 6:55am

2

4 PEOPLE, 4 COMMENTSCorrections 1

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Comments for this discussion are now closed.

1 2 3 5


The Arizona fee description is a bit misleading:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-15/arizona-regulators-impose-power-grid-fees-for-solar-roofs.html

Arizona Public is required to buy solar power from customers with rooftoppanels, and the commission agreed with its argument that the policyunfairly shifts some of the utilitys costs to people without panels.

iow, the fee is NOT about installing and using solar power, but selling the excess to thepower company.Power companies have to as much infrastructure (power plants) as needed for peakdemand, or there will be brownouts and blackouts. Homeowner solar panels onlywork when the sun's out, they're certainly more fragile than than a commercial powerplant, and their maintenance and replacement (as needed) is not up to the powercompany. So how much can they really depend on them as a reliable source?Generating one's own power for one's own use is fine, but selling excess at somearbitrary price is problematical. On sunny days, they're ALL selling. On cloudy days,and at night, the power company has to make up the difference - which means theinfrastructure investment doesn't decrease.Also...does an ordinary homeowner pay the same amount as a "family farmer" whoputs solar panels all over his/her land?I'd want to see the financials before deciding if $5/month is reasonable or not.



Marcus Marik Corrections

"Generating one's own power for one's own use is fine, but selling excess atsome arbitrary price is problematical."How come it's fine and dandy for the power company to customers the rateset by the commission, but the exact same rate becomes "an arbitraryprice" when they're paying it to another power producer?"Homeowner solar panels only work when the sun's out, they're certainlymore fragile than than a commercial power plant, and their maintenance andreplacement (as needed) is not up to the power company."In other words, the power company is getting extra power without making anextra capital investment. This "burdens" them how, exactly?"So how much can they really depend on them as a reliable source?"Someone with failed solar panels is equivalent to someone who neverinstalled any in the first place. Should the latter also have to pay the powercompany an extra charge? (Maybe I should delete that comment;;somebody from ALEC might read it and add it to their List Of Evil Ideas)."On sunny days, they're ALL selling. On cloudy days, and at night, thepower company has to make up the difference - which means theinfrastructure investment doesn't decrease."The peak demand for electricity is when the air conditioners are cranked up(i.e. sunny days). A system that automatically feeds power into the gridunder those conditions *relieves* the infrastructure strain -- if anything, thepower company should be paying an extra surcharge to the solar panelowner.



Dissident1 Marcus Marik

Don't burden $5 monthly 'corrections' with too much logic. $5...05 December 2013 3:07am

1


JohnManyjars Corrections

We get it 'corrections', your concern-trolling pretty much outs you as a sockpuppet. Run along now.


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