AK Accurizing Tips

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AK Accurizing Tips????s

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11-12-2003, 10:11 PM #1

sct1886Member AKaholic #: 39Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 416

AK Accurizing Tips????s

Lets hear the top secret tips for building the 1000yd sniper rifle out of the 16" AK Thanks Scott

AK Accurizing Tips????s - The AK Files Forums http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=345

1 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

11-13-2003, 11:47 AM #2

etp777Member AKaholic #: 9Join Date: Sep 2003Location: OKCPosts: 40

Take AK to local gun shop

Trade it for an M39

Buy some x54R.

11-13-2003, 12:21 PM #3

KalashniKollectrMember AKaholic #: 171Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 57

1000 yards shots? Buy yourself an AI chambered in .338 lapua, maybe a Robar SR-90 in 300 win mag,or better yet a RC-50 for the ultimate in long range shooting.

The Kollector

11-13-2003, 07:34 PM #4

HilljackMemberContributor AKaholic #: 29Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 199

Don't think I'd call it a sniper rifle, but improvements can some times be made. I have a CUR2 that wasabout as accurate as a shotgun. At 100 yards, groups would be about 12 - 16 inches. (NICE) Found thepart of the gas tube that holds the upper handguard, touching/pressing against the part tht holds thelower hand guard. Filed them down to get clearance. That helped.

Sent it out for cryo treatment. That helped quite a bit. The crown looked a bit strange. Somewhatscored on one side, and the lands looked pitted. Re-crowned , helped a little. It will pretty much hold 6


2 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

inch groups at 100 yards now.

Don't think it would be much of a contender on a 1000 yard match.

Hilljack

11-16-2003, 08:40 PM #5

sct1886Member AKaholic #: 39Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 416

The sniper rifle remark I hoped would be taken as a joke, obviously not. The cartridge is obviously notdesigned for shots over 300yds. Every firearm has quirks and methods for accurizing. I was hoping tosee some technical input. The obvious has already been fixed. The rifle has shot 1.25' groups.

11-18-2003, 11:01 PM #6

doogNew Member AKaholic #: 238Join Date: Nov 2003Location: southPosts: 7

thought you were serious. i was gonna suggest going up in a plane or hot air balloon and shootingdown. hell you could have just about unlmited range

11-19-2003, 09:02 AM #7

Prairie FireNew Member Here's a few things that seem to work.


3 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

AKaholic #: 893Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 7

1) Get rid of the cleaning rod, unless it's very loosely fitted.2) Check the horizontal length of the action cover. It should not bind up against the sight and/or barreltrunnions. Remove material from the front of the cover if it binds. You should be able to slide thereceiver cover forward and back with difficulty.3) Check the horizontal length of the gas tube. It should not bind up against the gas block. Removematerial from the front of the gas tube if it binds. You should be able to press all around the front of thetube (press hard), when it's assembled on the rifle, and see some movement of the tube against thegas block.4) With gas tube removed, check for clearance between the inside of the lower handguard and the rearsight trunnion. Remove material from the inside of the handguard until you can slip a piece of paperbetween the trunnion and the inside of the handguard.5) Check the horizontal length of the lower handguard. When locked up by the lever of the handguardferrule, the lockup should not be so tight that it puts binding pressure on the barrel. I shorten thehandguard so that the lever locks down easily (with the loose lockup, the lever will come up a littleunder recoil but will stay there and be blocked by the front of the gas tube.) I glass in the rear of thelower handguard and then glass the front of it to the point where there is no slop in fit, except for theno bind fit, front -to- rear.6) Having a good trigger pull certainly helps accuracy.7) Changing out the rear sight leaf to a Krebs replacement ghost ring seems to improve sight alignmentand resultant accuracy.8) Milling the front sight post (maybe .010") to make it almost square in profile seems to improve itsappearance and makes holding on the target easier for me.9) Find a brand of ammo that your rifle likes the best.

Just my opinion, these things have helped my rifles.

11-19-2003, 05:12 PM #8

johnsopi


4 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

MemberContributor AKaholic #: 147Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 292

Good post Prairie Fire. I printed it out.__________________Mercy is not getting what you deserve.Grace is getting what you don’t deserve

11-19-2003, 09:36 PM #9

KenR_RedStarArmsRed Star Arms

AKaholic #: 246Join Date: Nov 2003Location: Columbia MoPosts: 19

I agree with Prairie Fire. We ran a VEPR .223 in high power against the AR crowd. We had a goodshooter working for us and we did some tricks to the rifle.

1. Ammo that worked. Harder and more important than you think.2. Trigger. Our system space ghosted out.3. Forearm fit. PF is right do not over look this.4. Crowned barrel. A little tweak to get a bit more. Depends on shooter, ammo a lot of stuff on howyou crown it.5. SIGHTS! Good lord we cut and fussed with the front blade for weeks. Ended up coming close to anAR pattern front. Rear? We used a modified RPK back end.Watch the fit of every thing! Dust cover!! Once again PF is on the money. Gas piston bounce can notbe helped but, it can be reduced. Ask the ole M-1A boys.

Target rifle? No. Serious combat rifle yes. Hi-power gun.... we are still working on ours. Someday YES.

11-20-2003, 09:01 AM #10

pproMember

accuracy

KENR_Red Star ARms


5 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

AKaholic #: 529Join Date: Nov 2003Location: Poatello, Idaho(Southeast Idaho)Posts: 112

Ken

Regarding the gas piston slap are you talking about slap coming from tolerances between the tube andpiston or early movement of the piston or both. If it is tolerance slap I was wondering if you could use agas ring or something similar to take up some of the clearance.

Did you air gauge the barrel? If so....what were your general readings.

Did you do a chamber cast and if so, what were the throat dimensions.

Have you tried heavier barrels?

What catagory highpower were you shooting in and have you tried the gun in NRA hunter highpower?

thanks

Paul

11-20-2003, 11:41 AM #11

tripntxNew Member AKaholic #: 896Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 6

I have a SAR 2. Shooting at a distance of 75 yards, PSO1 6X scope, from bench with rest, I receive 3"groups using Wolf. When using Barnual I receive 6" groups. This is with 59 and 60 grain ammo. Ialways thought Barnual was supposed to be more accurate than Wolf and that 5.45 was supposed to bemore accurate than 7.62. Well, my Global Trades SSR 85B keeps much tighter patterns using opensights.

I had a someone shoot my SAR 2 from his bench and rest and he received the same poor results.


6 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

I'll try some of the tips on this to see if they will tighten up any.

11-20-2003, 08:56 PM #12



Here is our gun in action.

No we did not air gauge it or slugg it.

It was the best shooter in stock so we started with it.

we did a custom heavy in 7.62x39 . It shoot well but, had draw backs.


7 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM


8 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM


9 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

here are some ammo test targets


10 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM


11 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

Ken RSA

Last edited by KenR_RedStarArms; 11-20-2003 at 09:06 PM.

11-20-2003, 10:00 PM #13

pproMember

re highpower

Ken


12 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM


Was this at 200....or...

Were the issues sight radius and adjustments or what.

Did you build some match ammunition tailored to the gun?

Actually I am planning to try reduced range highpower with a AK based weapon next spring.....soanswers you provide save reinventing the wheel and let me focus on important issues enough inadvance to work the bugs out.

The targets and information are appreciated.

thanks

Paul

11-21-2003, 08:53 AM #14

pproMember AKaholic #: 529Join Date: Nov 2003Location: Poatello, Idaho(Southeast Idaho)Posts: 112

Accurate AK's

Hey Ken

Just a thought....and it might be fun, good for the forums and business.

Why not put on a AK E MAIL POSTAL MATCH.

Just define which weapons not allowed, if any (like the SVD or not) post a downloadable common targetand specify the range or ranges.

Let it run for the next year.....till years end.


13 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

Put out the target of choice, define the parameters, have them e mail the targets or mail them in andpost the results monthly on the forums with the annual winners (who would get a case of near beer orsomething

I think the AK guys need some fun comp to enjoy....talk about and boost the interest and make somesport out of it....just good fun stuff.

What do you think...?

Paul Prochko

11-21-2003, 01:12 PM #15

KalashniKatMember AKaholic #: 243Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 25

Has anyone tried a short soldered in gas tube like some FAL variants have? The end of the gas pistonstops about 2" short of the front trunion so the gas tube doesn't need to go all the way back. Haveingthe tube stop short of the reciever would eliminate any possibility of contact between the two affectingthe barrel.__________________AK's for Everyone!

11-21-2003, 11:02 PM #16

KalishNew Member AKaholic #: 916Join Date: Nov 2003

6" at 100 yds? I've seen 1911's that grouped

better than THAT. God.


14 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

Posts: 9

11-22-2003, 11:23 AM #17


not to bad a group

Those aren't that bad a groups.....

You have sitting/standing which is consistant and rounded showing good shooting position, triggercontrol, well centered and he was shooting in a annoying wind.

The prone has me puzzled a bit but then I haven't tried any of mine prone yet to know what they arelike. Lots of things make a difference in position shooting.

And....they were not using taylored ammunition, so you really can't say anything unless you know howwell the gun handles the ammunition they were using anyway. That is, maybe the gun only shoots thatstuff 2 inches @100 anyway, in which case those are pretty good targets.

Then there is the issue of sight radius, which does matter...longer is better.

Thats why I thought a AK postal match would be fun.....if nothing else I know some of the shooterwould learn more about their weapons and shooting in general.

Paul

11-22-2003, 11:57 AM #18

pproMember

not that bad a group

One other thing regarding the grouping prone.


15 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM


It looks like a fairly long magazine they are using which forces you into a fairly high prone position. Ifthe shooter is used to a high position and can shoot it then fine.....I can't.....it takes to much musclingof the gun and can wreck havoc with grouping so I wonder about that.

Paul

11-22-2003, 12:05 PM #19



I like the idea of a postal match. Has it ever been done with the AK family of rifles?

Maybe we could get AK Files to push it and it could become a big thing.

I will even throw in some prizes for the winner.

Ken RSA

11-22-2003, 02:45 PM #20

Prairie FireNew Member AKaholic #: 893Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 7

Ken from Red Star Arms: In one of your previous posts in this thread you talked about piston slap. Canyou please describe this more fully, and talk about what can be done to reduce it? Any other accurizingtips that you've come across would be appreciated.


16 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

11-22-2003, 05:54 PM #21


Postal Match

Ken

To my knowledge it has never been done. There are National NRA hunter reduced range postal matchesand some pistol postal and 22 postal and Silhouette handgun...but I think this breaks new ground for aall National AK postal match....

It would be wide open how you structure it as you specify any position other than bench (forexample).....unsupported, sling allowed or call for three position( standing sitting or kneeling or prone)or simply require X number of shots any position.

I would at least probably break it down into open site and scoped which let's the old farts participatewhich means two catagories and if it were me, I would add a junior catagory......

Pure fun........

You might think about a monthly best group and a annual winner....The annual winner could be the combined monthly's for the year or simply the best group for the year.Let people enter as many targets as they like (for example) where you can shoot all year and send in 1or more targets as the year progresses.... or just have a monthly winner based on that months targetsreceived during a given month. Post the monthly best groups sent in.....and if you have the mostmonthly wins in a given year you are the annual winner. One annual award to the smallest group shotoverall.

If you go with the NRA type of target like the 100 yd reduced range highpower target, it allows scoringboth group size and group center (so to speak) by points which is pretty numerically straight forward.You could use just the target centers or even the NRA 50 yd. std American pistol target is a goodone....but....I am thinking that all you need is a std target of some type that you could post on the site,of a type with numbered scoring rings and a black round center that open site shooters can target.


17 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

The shooters should probably mail in the target as I am thinking that you wouldn't want to get loadedup with target e mail....just a thought....but they could get the target from your site or this site anddown load it and print it.....I am thinking it just wouldn't work well to get them back as scannedtargets...

These are just some thought and ideas and by no means are all the possible ways to do this so I wouldthink to get some site input from the shooters and particularly those that have done some compshooting....but in any case I can't see this as not being fun for a lot of AK shooters......Who knows, might even get one of the Russian factories to chip in a medal or something distinctivelyspecial because it is a national event which really does honor thier design work..... for best of the bestfor the year.........

regards

Paul Prochko

11-22-2003, 09:31 PM #22

PackratVeteran Member AKaholic #: 8Join Date: Sep 2003Location: Mt Vernon ILPosts: 1,063

Well, I won't be shooting this event, but I think it's a good idea. I'll talk to Jen next time I see her inchat and see what we can set up. Anything special you need from the Files, or just good wishes?

Would you also admit SKSs, as part of a special group, maybe?__________________PackratThe Avtomat Kalashnikov--the choice of freedom-fighters everywhere

Last edited by Packrat; 11-22-2003 at 09:37 PM.


18 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

11-23-2003, 11:02 AM #23


AK Postal Match

PACKRAT

Sure....you could include the SKS as a sub group. That's the nice thing about this.....it should beshooter driven and if shooters want to shoot the SKS ....let them shoot.

You may make some changes to the format as you go along to accomodate the AK family but as long asyou so state up front, that being... that the format is subject to change...you should be all right.

You could well find yourself adding a few more sub groups for recognition as you go.....and possiblyeven adding something like a get together during the year.

I will ask my Sister's daughter who is in Russia now studying Russian and working on some kind thesis,if she would make a contact or two to see if their would be some factory support for the event .

It would help if anyone you know who would have the contacts in Russia could also work on support. Itwouldn't necessarily have to be anything expensive from a factory rather it can take a very simple formof recognition. Heck, they could do a traveling trophy if they wanted but sometimes the small thingsthat are more personal mean more to people.

regards

Paul

regards

Paul


19 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

11-23-2003, 07:10 PM #24



Here is a report our shooter did for us on the VEPR. It is a pdf I hope it answers questions and makesyou want to ask more. The postal match sounds like it is picking up speed!!VEPR report pdf

11-23-2003, 09:04 PM #25


I checked--we're good to go to set up a Postal Match, and AK Files will host it. We need to come up withhow we want to do it. I'll be liason with admin.__________________PackratThe Avtomat Kalashnikov--the choice of freedom-fighters everywhere

11-24-2003, 05:15 AM #26

TacticalSquirrelMember AKaholic #: 537Join Date: Nov 2003Location: Danbury WI

Looking forward to participating. What are rules dealing w optics like a Kobra?


20 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

Posts: 27

11-24-2003, 04:30 PM #27


Postal match

Packrat is right now working his fingers to the bone on the here to for's and how to proceed.....

It shouldn't take but about a week to rough most of this out (I hope )

I wouldn't worry to much about being able to use your Cobra.

regards

Paul

My Niece is in Russia, and I will ask her to contact at least one of the gun plants to see if they wouldprovide something for support. I sent her a a mail and now I just need to get her the address.

regards

Paul

11-26-2003, 04:50 AM #28

madtraderNew Member AKaholic #: 535Join Date: Nov 2003

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenR_RedStarArms


21 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

Posts: 23Here is a report our shooter did for us on the VEPR. It is a pdf I hope it answers questions andmakes you want to ask more. The postal match sounds like it is picking up speed!!VEPR report pdf

I've had the pleasure of reading this report before. Others have experienced interest in reading it in thepast, but no one knew where we could get a copy of it. Is it alright if I mirror this on my own website,or may I link to your original?

Also, I'm really interested in this postal match. I've never participated in any sort of shootingcompetition and this sort of gets me excited. I only recently started into AK's and it would give meanother excuse to practice more .

11-26-2003, 06:25 PM #29



You sure can!! I glad there is interest in this topic. I will be gone for while out of the country so I willno be on the boards for 2 weeks. See you all soon.

Ken RSA

11-26-2003, 10:51 PM #30

Packrat


22 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

Veteran Member AKaholic #: 8Join Date: Sep 2003Location: Mt Vernon ILPosts: 1,063

We're getting more questions than answers (about how to set up the competition), but it's comingtogether. AK Files will host it.

A big problem is how to classify the rifles. I have a MAK-90 that's had nothing done but a trigger job. Ihave another that is a collection of mis-matched parts assembled on a Bulgarian milled receiver. Arethose classified the same? You can buy match .308 and .223, but not 7.62x39. You can't buy 5.45x39components even if you want to handload. How do we make the playing field level for the differentshooters? What do we do about the guy who has half a dozen AKs in 3 different calibres. How manyways can he compete?

We're looking to announce the competition and what rules we can come up with by the end of nextmonth or early January. Right now we're looking to have 12 monthly winners and a year winner basedon the average scores for the year, but that may change. At this point we're open to suggestions. Wemay have some prizes, but the main thing we're looking for is learning more about the AK, and havingsome fun.__________________PackratThe Avtomat Kalashnikov--the choice of freedom-fighters everywhere

Last edited by Packrat; 11-26-2003 at 11:08 PM.

11-27-2003, 10:09 PM #31


That may be one way, but not the only one. And you haven't said anything about floating the barrel,which is much easier.__________________PackratThe Avtomat Kalashnikov--the choice of freedom-fighters everywhere


23 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

11-29-2003, 11:42 AM #32

mohctepMember AKaholic #: 963Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 128

I'm in on the postal match if it happens,{and a couple of friends of mine would like it,too}.Just let meknow what the rules are. Cool Idea !

11-30-2003, 01:42 AM #33


We now have a forum for the Postal Match. I'm trying to put together a set of rules that will allow a SARto compete with a chance to win, but also give people an incentive for trying to wring the best out ofthe AK. And for those who have other interests, I'm trying to create a class that will allow some of theother ComBloc semi- or full-automatics to compete.

Keep an eye on the new forum and you'll know what's happening with this idea. Never let it be said thatpeople don't listen to your ideas.__________________PackratThe Avtomat Kalashnikov--the choice of freedom-fighters everywhere

12-05-2003, 01:27 PM #34

VALMET_M76Temp ban-Multipleindiscretions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GARY GUCCIANO


24 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

AKaholic #: 90Join Date: Nov 2003Posts: 3,072

If you want accuracy out of an AK there is only one real way to get it.

First you surface the bolt face so it exactly 90 degrees.Then you have to put the bolt in the trunnion and turn it into the locked position or closedposition.Clamp the bolt in the closed position.Put the Go headspace guage into the bolt.Then press the barrel until it deadends into the bolt face.Press the barrel so far that the bolt won't be able to turn out freely.Use a brass hammer, tapping lightly to free the bolt loose.Then use lapping compound to polish just face of the bolt.Re-install into the locked position this time with the bolt in the carrier.Put lapping compound on the locking lugs and force the bolt closed.Free again with brass hammer this time hitting on the bolt carrier to release.Work the bolt several times with the lapping compound in the reciever.Only when the bolt is has no wiggle room, then you pin the barrel.

I have several AK's built this way- the most accuracte one had the barrel pressed into thetrunnion while the bolt was in the closed position but it was done without the headspace guage.Then using the headspace guage was it lapped to fit.

This post above explains a lot. It explains why Gucciano built rifles have up to a quarter inch ofunsupported cartridge case when a round is chambered. Accidents waiting and going to happen.

The above "instructions" indicate a fucking moron that has no clue how to build a rifle. Gary Gucciano tobe exact.

Last time I checked with a real gunsmith the way a barrel is headspaced is more like: Fit bolt to barrelclearance as barrel is pressed. Insert guage. Bolt won't close?REAM THE FUCKING CHAMBER.


25 of 27 4/28/12 9:56 PM

Mike

12-14-2003, 02:49 PM #35

NapalmBathNew Member AKaholic #: 1121Join Date: Dec 2003Posts: 1

Check out http://www.cryocon.org/ and http://opsinc.us/. Accuracy among other things is based onbarrel harmonics. The cryo-gun process can improve this as well helping with barrel warpage and alsokeeps the barrel from expanding to the point that the gases move around the bullet and pushes it offcourse (bullet walk), and creates a tighter grain structure in the steel which makes it easier to clean andcan be done to all the steel parts of the rifle not just the barrel. A muzzle brake that is properlydesigned can help as well and the opsinc brake was designed with the physics of what happens whenthe gasses are released from the barrel. However this is not something that you would want to do to amediocre rifle as the cost would not justify it so I would not do it to a rifle that's not a keeper, hope thishelps.

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AK Accurizing Tips