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Q� ALL INF 001-1.100101-~1 001~1T.r-:;1-1E0 �#5//5~ HEREIN IS UNCLASSIFIED ~
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10/Ol/200
RAMEZ TAWFIKYNOAMAN, maleLJ
I Iwasinterviewed in the United States Courthouse for the Southern District.
of New York. Also present during this ihterview were Christopher� Morvillo and Robin Baker, Assistant United States Attorneys for the
Southern District of New York�[:::::::] NOAMAN was advised of the identities of the interviewingagents and the purpose of the interview.
[:::::::::::::::]the offer of a translator and agreed toproceed with the interview in English. [::::::]was advised that it is' igca federal crime to lie or to make false statements to federal b7D
ff' ' lo icia s. I lhe understood his rights and hethereafter provided the following information.
|:|
O9/28/2001 New York, New York
265A�NY�280350�302 » 10/01/2001
SAI I/jm SP~|:|
MISC REQ. #41 000003650
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265A�NY�280350-302 b6b7C
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°. _,_~.f . ALL If-IIFIJRFIATION L�jC|I92JTAII'-�TED �__g 3 HEREIN I5 T_T1�*Il:L.F92.S~$IFIED
' � DATE. I:IEI�I:I2-2 IIIIIE BY __ Ibé
' 5 13 3 |iI~9.;iU|:1m=m,-*� I'~�IL�L' I512 � ' lb? C. ���- wor ing Copy ���- Page
I 10/O6/2001
Reference Newark Lead Control Number[:::::::]
JIMI NOURI, I I
| I was interviewed at the FBI, Newark, Garret MountainResident Agency, West Paterson, New Jersey. After being advisedof the identities of the interviewing agents and the nature ofthe interview, NOURI provided the following information;
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Case ID : 3l5N-NY�280350-302 Serial : 58885
AC5 REQ 10-21-03 000000143
1b7Cib7Dbf:
FD-302 Rev.l0-6-95! I t-s� I I ~ "1
. . .136' � ' _1_. ' �b7C
t �FEDERAL BUREAllOFINVEST1GATTON_
�_ . . __ ~ _ �Date of transcription 1O/O8/2OQ]_
tl | also known as_ aka!| Idate of birth DOB!| Social Security Number| I
Portland, Maine, home phone number .e�mail address was interviewed at
the Portland, Maine Resident Agency of the FBI. After being advised of'. the identity of the.interviewing agents and the purpose-of_the - "
- interview,[::::] provided the following information;� '
. _ ' . _t ~ Additional details regarding the trip |:|t"ddi< with|:|[:::::g:::¥ DOB: [::::::::]! to Los Angeles LA! sometime between
Decem er 999 and February 2000 are provided below. For'reference;see FD�302s of interviews with[:::::]on.10/06/2001.and 10/07/2001!."
I '0ne day| lmentioned to that his visa~ was going to expire.] Ineeded help and aske about the
paperwork | Ishowe some of the forms an papers| |was under the impression that he had to leave the country andget his visa renewed. Then he would be able to return to the Unltéd
States U.S.!. E:;::;gadvised[::::;:;;::]against leaving the countryand told him he s.ou_ take care o e matter through the embassyuinthe U;S. I Itold him to call the'embassy.y This conversation- 'occurred at] Iapartment in San Diego.� ' _ .
tApproximately one or two weeks passed and he sawat the Islamic Center of San Die o ICSD mosque rougthe visa subject up once again. said he called the Saudiembass and they advised they could take care of the matter.
E:::::j� invited[:::::]to come alon on the tri nee ed totake to the consulate in LA. .tol he knew a goodrestaurant to stop at and eat in LA.| Iadvised that _restaurant serves good food and is Halal. He asked if he ever
' saw the new mosque in or near Culver City" l h not been to the�' . . . - a _
mosque.l |believes the mosque is on or near Washington Street.said they would visit the mos ue afterwards. The trip had
_ no set criteria. It centered around going to the consulate.wanted-to go the following day and extended the invitation.
agreed to gol �There was no pressure or coercion; E:::::]noted. a in Islam one does not reject invitations unless there is a good ~
reason. [::::::::::]asked if he should pick[::::]up.[::::::]saidghe'l4 , . I � -ALL II-IFIIIFI-Ii1iTIlIlI*I lIlIll!~]'TilII~lEI3 " '_ _�
' - ' - - � IEIFJZIN I�? Tl]-Il"LAL'i"1IFI4ED. , -
' _ _ " I _ I �t DATE oi-as-200? E? E0324 AUE£BAWjCPB£YHUIw�wwwnw 4'10/08/2001 �J! Portland, Maine; ' ' ,. .� ' - � I
nu: 365A-Ny-280350-302- _ .- _ ~.Mmdkm@.' S �b6
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This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. It is the property ofthe FBI and is loaned to your agency; ,
' -REQ 1°-11> � ._ , ' W 000000048
92DWQ@g@ jk753_ . Q - -,0
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FD-302a Rev.10~6-95! . �~/T �
� 106
V 4- _ - � _Ib7C
265A�NY�280350�302
Continuation ofFD-302 of On 10/O9/2001 ,Pa � 2
would come over to[::::::::;:;:;Fpartment the next morning. [::::::::::].suggested to be there aroun : O a.m. [::::::::::]indicated he woulddrive. - -0� '_ *'
" - � The-following day[:::::]walked from his apartment on[::::::::]_I |to| Iapartment This was on a weekda but definitelynot a Frida as that is ra er da H door- <"y, » 'py �y-he ' V
came outside and they left in gold NissanAltima.| |needed to be at the consulate by a certain time.During t e drive u to LA, they spoke mostly about religion. During
| | | | � d h 0the drive, hereinafter referred to as mentione teathe needed to stop and obtain-some photographs of himself for the visa"
' �process. They began to look for a place to obtain the photos. Thestopped at a Kinkos, but they did not do photographs. They thenstopped at a large mall off the I-405 freeway on Sepulvada phonetic!.They walked in together and encountered a photo booth near the
. � entrance. [::::]got his photo taken in his traditional headwear orturban. This was apparently necessary for the visa.[::::]vms wearingwestern clothing, including a sport jacket. After obtaining the ~photos, they got back into the car and drove_straight to the consulatein LA. _ ,- � - » . "
. 4' _The consulate isA underground parking. 'They
a large white clearly marked building withparked underground and exited the car.[:::::]
had his paperwork with him. They went into the reception area The �IT waited.in the lobby. Soon a man came out and greeted[:::::][:::::::i
described the man as being in his.4Os, approximately 5'8" in height,with a black/grey.beard down to his chest, who was wearing a suit. It"appeared that[:::]and the man from the consulate knew each other. It�was obvious they had met before. �The conversation was in Arabic _however. did not understand what was_exactly said. [:::::::]
� introduced to the man asna friend who just became a Muslim. The �man switched to English and spoke to[:::::]briefly. asked forinformation regarding Saudi Arabia. Shortly therea§%g%?iE2::]and theman went behind closed doors. waited in the lobby for up_toa roximately thirty minutes. and the man came out together.
[:ff::]asked the man for a packet of information on Saudi Arabia. Theman told him to wait there and retrieved some items for The K
information included a packet of information and Islamic books._ Duringthe encounter[::::]was formal, briefn and official, as if he had a
V business pur ose. After being at the consulate for up to a maximum ofi one hour,[:iE::::::::::]left. "They returned to the car ani again drove.� They spoke about how nice the interaction was., indicated he was successful in getting the visa extension.
.estimated the time was now well past noon.T A » . ~ -
1w .
REQ lo�b �A 000000049Q .
FD-302:1 Rev. I0-6-95! ~_~-
�265A�NY�280350�302 '
_ .b6Ib7Ci
Continuation of FD-302 of I On 10/O9/2001 ,Page 3 w_ ~
' While driving they talked of their plan to go to therestaurant because they were both hungry. They-drove several miles tothe restaurant through surface streets looking for it. 'The �did nothave a map and were playing it by ear.[:::::]said the restaurant hadgood food and said he had taken his family there before. That is'whyhe wanted to take[:::::]there. E::::]found the restaurant awhile ago.They made a few U�turns, got confused trying to find it, and missed
. some turns.� When questioned further about these driving methods,[:::::]said[::::]was not doing those maneuvers intentionally. He found noreason to believe they were being followed or attempting to evade panything. ', .- l�- M
� 4 They finally found the restaurant and arked on the street.�� They walked inside the small establishment}[::::E:]observed it be,a
butcher shop, with deli or baker st le refrigerator cases inside.;Ef:::iinquired in Arabic to one of the �There were no other customers
employees.; The three workers
E::::]tolci[::::] they informedlonger ab the establishment.shop. The restaurant portion
The people inside recommendedwas close by. They walked to
inside talked Arabic to[::::]briefly.him that they do not serve food anyThey only sell meat and operate a butcherof the establishment was closed down.another restaurant that serves[:::::]thatthis new restaurant; L
92sA [:::::ldescribed it as a Mediterranean cafe,.which could not
be any larger t an 500 square feet. 'After entering,[::::]mentioned "that it was time to pray. AThey both ordered some food, which includedhumus and grape leaves. There were some other customers, such as takeout customers. _There were no other dine in customers at this time.
'Since it was time to pray, out of consideration[:::]a5ked if[::;;:]~ wanted to go to the mosque to pray.[::::::]said he would pray rig t
here} went to the bathroom to.wash up before rayer. »He was out' of sight for less than five minutes. E;;:::iwaited a short~time, too water from the table and went outsi e to wash up for prayer.This was partially because he realized there was only one bathroom.
"Whether it was a public or employee bathroom is unclear to-i washed near a tree outside. While he was outside washing came
outside. E::::j laid down a cloth to pray on.- They then praye ogether. for_approximately five minutes. They then returned inside to eat.
p_ The only time[::::]was apart from[:::::]was the less than~ five minutes he was washing in the bathroom. When asked why he did not
. mention that in earlier interviews,[:::;:]responded that he did not, Tconsider that time as[::::]being away, ecause it would have beensynonymous with prayer or preparing to pray. He did not bring it upbecause he still considered himself to be together with[:::::] It was '
'REQ 10-11> " oooooooso
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. - 3 �1FD-302a Rev. 10-6-95! Q. -
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265A�NY�280350�302'
Continuation 0fFD-302 of �On 10/0'9/200_1 ,Page 4
purely a matter of semantics and misunderstanding. When asked if [::::]could have been making phone or cell phone calls during this time away,[::::g1doubted it; -He did not notice a public phone in the _esta ishment.E:::::]did have his cell phone with him but did not�remember him getting or making any calls at the restaurant. ididnot thinkE::::]would have had the time to be making calls while he was I
_ washing., ' A� ._y ' ' . . y. -
y - There were two workers inside the cafe. 'They both spoke-English..E::::]did not appear to know either of-them, There was anolder man cooking in the back._ The female waitress indicated that he_was her father. _y 0 - _ _' , »-- A" -
" = While eating, they engaged in normal conversation. 'Two mencame into the establishmentf» The men were later determined to be ANAWAF AL�HAZMI DOB: O8/O9/1976 and KHALID AL�MIHDHAR DOB; l0/15/1966!.�.
E::::] now realizes that the men were Nawaf Al�Hazmi and Khalid Al� -Mihdhar. Al�Hazmi and Al�Mihdhar sat down inside.� They a eared to beArabic, even though they were dressed in western clothes.[¬§::::]was ~�wearing western clothes, but may have also had a head covering. He is
_ not sure. How the first interaction occurred between the two men and[::::] and[:::::::::] is unclear. The best possibility.is that the ..overheard the men speakin Arabic or the men overheardE::::] o��mmbmn -say something Islamic. E:f:::]is not positive who approached who first.At~any rate �it seemed like a coincidental meetin . There was nothingto indicateE::::]knew the two men or they knew did not];know either man." Introductions started and was "the host" from
- itheibeginning-to the end of the meeting. translated and letknow what was occurring during the conversation between 1and Al�Mihdhar. .This was because the conversations were in Ara ic an
[:::::]did not understand it well. ' _ ' I y � »
T -E::::]invited~Al#Hazmi and §l�Mihdhar to eat with them. [:::::]did not find this unusual as this was the type of person|q??9:fas.
is very generous. They sat at a table right next to and�Al�Mihdhar and Al�Hazmi sat across from each other, as[:;;::] .
an were doinga E:::::]drew a rough diagram of the restauran and ,where they were sitting. The diagram will be maintained in the lA �
V section of the case file!.. 0 . »� _ - , - I
. �,The conversation continued. From[::::::]perspective, it did"not seem serious. The three_of them were smiling, laughing and gettingto know each other._ recalls Al�Hazmi and Al�Mihdhar having "chi"l or tea. lThey also sgareg some oq::::::]and E:::::] food after being
REQ 10-11> ' 000000051 i
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Contmuauon ofFD~302 of - I �, On 1 O / O 9 U O-l ,Page ' 5
.offered.'[:::::]estimated the meeting lasted for awhile, but not anylonger than one hour. ' ».; _ ' .dg ' g Q" i
. > , During_the-conversations[::::::]learned that Al�Hazmi and AlfMihdhar just came from Saudi Arabia and were students. They wanted tostudy English. They were currently living in LA,-somewhere in the areaof the restaurant and did not like LA.� Al�Hazmi was doing most of thetalking with »Al�Mihdhar was less talkative. At the end of the .meal/meeting, ave his phone number to Al-Hazmi.. is notsure, but believes also got their phone'number.. -told Al-Hazmi and Al+Mihdhar that they lived in.San Diego and invited them to _San Diego to check it out. E:::] told them if they liked San Diego, hewould be able to and was happy to help them. [::::%and[g::::]left therestaurant first. Al�Hazmi and Al�Mihdhar stayed ehin ,
' 4 [::::]and[:::::]left in[;:::::]car.s They went to the Culver »City mosque for sunset prayer.� T ey spent approximately fifteen to _twenty minutes there. The mosque was a few blocks from the restaurant.
It could possibly be located on Washington Street. .After prayer,[::::]drove them back to San Diego. E::::]�recalls[::::]calling his wife onhis cell phone advising her he was on his way home. They made no - 1
yadditional stops.� When they reached San Diego,:E::::}ropped[:::::]offon Beadnell Way and departed. � � * _ » ~
. [:::::gkas asked why he previously reported the first time heymet Ale�azmi an Al�Mihdhar was at.the party they had at their Mt. Ada
Road apartment after moving to San Diego. [;:::;1reminded the agentsthat he has ADD Attention Deficit Disorder . though he does have agood memory, he remembers.some things better than others. �The directquestioning by SA[::::::::]yesterday regarding the meeting andsurrounding circumstances jarred his memory. When he was at Al�Hazmi�sand Al-Mihdhar's apartment on the day of the party, he spent four or.five hours there. He specifically remembered this event right awaybecause of the significant amount of time he spent with them that day;At the time of-the earlier interviews l0/O4/2001 and 10/O6/2001!, he
believed that the party was the first time he met the individuals untillater realizing he did have an earlier chance meeting with them. Just
as[::::]explained to SA.[::::::;]yesterday, he was confusing twoevents at the same restaurant an was unsure who he met during one of _'the occasions.[:::::]was hesitant to provide misleading or inaccuratelinformation to the agents, or say something he was unsure of. [g:::::;]also noted the difficulty in remembering something that occurre �near ytwo years ago. ' _-�- �D _ . _,
REQ�10�1b __ . .-000000052
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265A�NY�280350�302 '
Continuali0nofFD-3020!� 10/O9/V2001 � ,Pnge ' 6
T The first time[:;:::] was at the Mediterranean restaurant/cafewas the occasion he was-with[::::] as described above. pThe secondoccasion was months later during 2000, when he was in the LA area for a
_ different issue. 'He was living in Santa Barbara at the time. iHe.~prayed at the nearby Culver City Mosque that day. He knew of the drestaurant from his earlier visit and decided to stop and eat there.v
A _[:::::]was alone in LA at this time. He seems to recall meeting someonehe knew from his past travels while in the restaurant on this occasion}He cannot recall who exactly he met however. -This is one of the 4reasons he was confused earlier on the issue. . ' � .
' When asked if he could have been used by[::::]in some way -.concerning this meeting,[:;:::Lsaid he did not think so. However, dueto what happened on Septem er l, 2001, he now believes that there isiaremote possibility. ~Regarding whether he was used in an manner, such_as for an alibi or cover, in any of[::::::]activities, said if he
. was used for this purpose he never realized.it and ' i a good job.E::::]noted that he heard from his ex�wife,[:::::] t at[:::]was makingfun of[::::] behind his back. He never knew whether to believe it.; _
5; |would not be talking with the FBI if he didn't thinkthat could be involved in the terrorist activity somehow.~ , rHowever, prefaced this statement by saying that he would be very
surprised to find out E::] was involved in terrorist activity. Whenasked what in particular may lead him to thin could be involvedin terrorist activity,[:::::]said if " y on theplane that crashed, and his identit was not stolen, association
with£:::;:;::lbecomes interestin .[%:;:::]noted that and[::::::::]spen ay o o �time together.[::f:::]claimed to have no current contactwith[:::;]and no knowledge of his current whereabouts.. The last time ,they spo e was in 2000.0 �T _ , . A H i �
92
After E::::]arm1[:::]returned from the LA trip �he_heardmention Al�Hazmi and Al-Mihdhar�in passing on approximately two ,
did not consider them significant. On one occasion,
I |:|
occasions. The conversations are difficult to rememTer becausel |if he remembered the men they met in LA. [::::]indi¢ated.something tothe effect that the will possibly move to San Diego and came down to_V
visit. Another timef::::]mentioned that they were coming.down, possibly- meaning they were moving to San Diego._ A f" ' . _ _
'- There was a housewarming/welcomei art. for[:::::::::::::::][:::::::]after they moved into their[:::::::§:::f]apartment. _This is �
REQ 10�1b 000000053
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., 265A�NY�280350�302'' - _b6
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the party that� threw for them, as explained in previous- g <statements.� recalled this as his "first significant interaction"with Al�Hazmi an �Al�Mihdhar, until his memory was refreshed yesterday.This event was the strongest thing in his mind at the time. This ' _partially-caused [::::]to report this as the first time he met Al�Hazmi
� and Al+Mihdhar. During the_party, there was a large piece of plasticin the middle of the floor. "Everyone sat on the floor around the
' edges. The attendees ate from containers.placed in the middle.of theplastic.[:::::] Al¢Hazmi, and Al-Mihdhar were doin the preparation,"' ' r - ' ' t th i t fE::f:] filmed some ofA cooking, aDd.S¬IVlng. a e reques othe party. 'At one'poE;¬;EEEE%]got in front of the camera and said afew words. This included why they were gathering and the date. -Ale.Hazmi and Al�Mihdhar were captured on the tape as well. Some attendeeswere sensitive about not being filmed.- ' .' � L ' .-.
* At one point in time,[:::] told[::g::¥that he was the i ' ""guarantor" for.the apartment of Al�Hazmi an A �Mihdhar. [:::::]wantedto correct something SA E:::::::]may have misunderstood from an earlierstatement. -Regarding how many occasions he was at Ale�azmi and Ali, *
"Mihdhars's apartment,[:::::]said it was between ten and twenty times.Many times he went to the apartment not to visit them, but to catch upwith E:::]' spent a lot of time at Al~Hazmi and Al�Mihdhars�sapartment. did not know Al�Hazmi and'Al~Mihdhar very well or for
� "moved int ' T _ ., � [::::::]very long. left San Diego a relatively short time after they A
o the apartment Most of interaction with Al�Hazmi. was when[:::] was also present. This included the occasions wher1[::::::]
was at Al�Hazmi and Al�Mihdhars's apartment. .
' � kn SanDiego during the time period of December 1999 to February-ZUOO. He washomeless, but two Muslim brothers from ICSD let him sleep at theirapartment.� He did not s end much time with them or at the apartment.
Y One roommate's name was[¬:::::]LNU Last Name Unknown!; He was in his-* mid�2Os and is a computer programmer. E::::]believes he still lives in
that general area of San Diego. He is Yemeni, but may be of Somaliandescent. He also has famil ties in the Netherlands. The other .T roommate was[:;;::]LNU,-whoi::;:] did not know very well. [:::::] is 9approximately "to 25 years o a e and is an engineer. He returned to"_.Saudi Arabia in early 2000. E::::§]lost[:::::::gcontact information.� ,[:::::::] roommates were both regulars at ICSD an .spoke English. They
halso both knew[::::]very well and for much longer than dld._ They� would probably be able to provide information regarding '
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� On 1051132601, R Aanoum;V $an Diego, Ca ifornia 91941; date cf birth
was interviewed at the Otay Mesa detention facility,San Diegc, Callfnrnia, Qperated by QQxrecti@ns'Q@rwaxation oi L-America. AEDOUE was pravicusly interviewed by SA1:�:::]and SAE::::::]cn Gctober 10¢ 2001. That interview was dacumented in aseparate FD43U2- ABBQUN was willing to talk with-the interviewingagents withuut an attnrney and voluntarily prmvided tbg follcwingin�ormation; - . » -
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�n Saturday, September 15» 2801, at approximately 8:33AM} by;ABDDUN was in his apartment watching t&l@visi0n coverage Qf'the �;hijackings and subseqaent invastigation. AL~SALM§ joined him and-sai�, "I knaw they were going tn dm something, that is why I got
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TINA BETH ARNOLD, date of-birghz I I SSAN: [:::]92 ' hmme address: I ___________ ___________ __ Scotittsciale,
Arizona, home telephone number: emplcye� at SAWYERSVCHOBL OF AVIATI !N', 2738' Sky Harbor Blvd. , Ph_Uenix, Arizcma,
92 teleghone number: {S02} 273~l2U2 was advise� cf the identity sf thevinterviewing Agents and the Assistant Unita� States Actoru&y AUSA!. ARNQLD vmluntarily provided the �ollowing information. �
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Case ID ; 2¬5A~§Y~280350~3G2 _> ~ - Serial�: 62256 .
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- Qn October 36; * 2001 George Harb, birth|:||:!was :1'.n§:e:crv~:Le2wed in connection with _ Herb wasapprised of the id-entity 0f the interviewing agent and the gpurgzovse .GE the intze1:view._ Harb g;-rovideci the following i_nEo;:ma_iion: , - '
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Gesrme Hark �Harb!, horn on�In ¬Qnn&ction with cwntrol number $D5§5, Qn D§fl5/2961,
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_ &ele§hQne pagernumber Harb is� ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ �
1 After being advised éf thé idantities of theinvestigating agants and.che purpose cfpravided aha following infcrmation;
the interview, Hark
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