Arts Activated Transcript: Track 8 - 21st September 2016

Arts and Disability Opportunities in the Australian Context

 LISA HAVILAH: Hello, good morning. Welcome to this session. My name is Lisa Havilah, I'm the director of Carriageworks and I am also really thrilled to be having Arts Activated here in 2016. I'd like to start today by acknowledging the traditional owners of this country, the Gadigal people and their Elders past and present for allowing us to be here today. 

I'd also like to acknowledge Accessible Arts board members and staff who have done an incredible job bringing this conference together. 

Today we will be talking about Arts and Disability Opportunities in the Australian Context and thinking about the lessons Australia can learn from international programs and models. To do this, we are very lucky to have with us Morwenna Collett and Tandi Williams. I'll just give you a bit of a background on each of them. Tandi Williams is a research consultant and currently controls project risk and is also their disability champion. 

She also did the Australia Council's action plan and developed something to support disability. Morwenna has coordinated at the University of Sydney and sat on the University Arts Advisory Group. An important group that supports artwork across Sydney. She is also on the City of Sydney's Inclusion Disability Advisory Committee. Please join me in welcoming Morwenna. 

Tandi Williams is an independent research consultant and part of UTS. Originally trained in economics and finance, Tandi's passion for the arts led her to her current role providing research and analysis services for arts and cultural organisations. 

She was previously research consultant for... 

She is also a member of the Advisory committee. 

Today they will present what Australia can learn from Unlimited. This is a program that offers talented artists with disability mentoring and support to develop and show ambitious new work. 

The aim of Unlimited is to embed the work of artist with a disability within the UK

cultural sector and reach audiences to shift perceptions. The Unlimited program is linked with the Bienale and Glasgow 

Please welcome Morwenna and Tandi. 

(Applause) 

TANDI WILLIAMS: Thank you Lisa and good morning everyone. This is Morwenna, I am Tandi Williams and we are really excited to be here today to share Arts and Disability Opportunities in the Australian Context. another way of putting it would be opportunities in the global context. 

This really follows on from Marc's presentation. 

Today we're here to share with you the inside scoop on the Unlimited program.

Unlimited is a multi-million pound, multi-year initiative originally set up in the cultural Olympiad. It was initially set up to create high-quality, durable works. It is currently run by two organisations, Shape and Arts Admin, an arts production house. 

The program recently had its funding confirmed up to 2020 by some of our partners. They'd also recently expanded their commissions program so it now includes an international collaborative commissioning fund which closes in November this year and some of you will already know about that and be considering applying for it. 

We are answering the question, is Unlimited worth it? 

It is a big bold question. But they wanted to know where and how they were making a difference and if so, how could they do an even better job of supporting disabled artists and achieving its vision of shifting perceptions about disabled people which is, in fact, a big ambitious goal. Morwenna and I reluctantly took on this opportunity to travel to Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, conduct our fieldwork at the Edinburgh Festival. Truly awful. 

Through our evaluation we interviewed 35 different people, we conducted a focus group and survey data from almost 100 people as well is doing observations at different industry events and conferences including disability specific forums and what we called mainstream, it's a horrible word, but in stream of conferences. Give us a chance to immerse ourselves in the work of Unlimited in the context of UK and behind the scenes of this innovative program. Discover what was working, and what wasn't. By sharing our insights with you today, we're hoping to start a conversation about what we might be able to borrow in Australia. As we all know in ask administration, good arts administrators copy but great arts administrators steel. 

My name is Tandi Williams, I am an arts research specialist. Originally trained in

economics and finance but I don't normally tell people that anymore. I promise I only use those powers for good. Helping organisations get the most out of research. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: Hello everyone, some of you will already know me as a passionate artist and advocate, and having disability myself. Some people may also know me as the Australia Council Disability leader, and today I am speaking as an independent research consultant. I have been lucky enough to have a relationship with the Unlimited program since 2014 when I went over to London to work with them as their first international intern in September. I am actually here hot off the plane, one day behind Marc in Glasgow. Following the iterations that happened in London for the very first time. First up today, we're going to tell you what Unlimited is all about. We'll talk a little bit about the different context and history of arts and disability practice in both UK and Australia. 

Then were going to move on and share some of what we learned through our evaluation of Unlimited that we think might be useful or helpful to organisations here in Australia before we finish at the end with our own key takeaways and provoke you with some questions about what might happen next here in Australia. 

But first, and to explain a little bit more about what Unlimited is all about, were going to play you a short video to give you a bit of a flavour of the kind of work we're talking about. 

(Video plays) 

SPEAKER: Unlimited is a commissioned program by the Arts Council of Wales., 

SPEAKER: We've also got a range of brilliant partners... 

SPEAKER: Unlimited is giving disabled and deaf artists new opportunities to really aim high and produce high quality work with a realistic budget. It also provides an incredible platform to present the work. 

SPEAKER: It's pioneering, changing the landscape and seeing work that is as we feel, (inaudible). 

SPEAKER: (Inaudible) we're incredibly excited with what we can deliver and achieve. This time, where we're coming into our stride. 

SPEAKER: 

The program in 2014, every show was sold out at least two weeks in advance. 

SPEAKER: I think we seen from the many locations that (inaudible). I'm very excited today to make some of those come to fruition. 

SPEAKER: Today we've managed to bring 160 applications down to nine which has not been easy. 

SPEAKER: Diverse artforms (inaudible). 

SPEAKER: An absolute wealth of quality, exciting, risky, wonderful (inaudible). 

SPEAKER: (Inaudible) 

SPEAKER: The range of art forms and themes and ideas is very exciting. 

SPEAKER: Visual theatre, drama, (inaudible).

SPEAKER: They really are the cream of the crop. 

SPEAKER: We're excited to keep pushing the boundaries of what we expect artists to do. 

SPEAKER: I am absolutely convinced we made some good decisions and make some exceptions with the interesting work (inaudible). 

SPEAKER: I think commissioning the work is a first step, what we really need to do now is develop that work and get that work shown. 

SPEAKER: We need more producers and (inaudible). 

SPEAKER: I think the news need to look at their own audience development and look at bringing this work into their venues. 

SPEAKER: (Inaudible) 

SPEAKER: What Unlimited allows us to do is be a part of a ber artistic community. 

SPEAKER: (inaudible) I'm really pleased to be the leader of that. 

SPEAKER: It's really great art by really great artist. That's the message we want to push. 

SPEAKER: Please get in touch. (inaudible) 

MORWENNA COLLETT: So hopefully that gives you a bit of a sense of the type of work that Unlimited did. Well that was a four-minute snapshot that has been recently funded in London and Glasgow. Before we jump into talking about Unlimited's impact, we're going to set the scene in terms of art and as a practice in the UK and some of the factors that have led to the actual creation of the Unlimited program in the first place. 

So, to set the context for disabled people generally, they have a piece of legislation called the Equalities Act 2010 which is much ber than the one in Australia. It has some wonderful connotations for arts and it's a practice. One example I can give you is that all art needs good citations to receive funding from the Council of England which is the arts funding body there. They must report to receive their funding. 

The next thing to note of course, is that the UK has a much larger population than Australia, 64 million people and of this, 11 million people or 17% identify as disabled. 

The UK also has a b and long history of activism. There was a bit in the video I will talk about shortly which demonstrates this point well. Disability is absolutely on the political agenda in the UK, it is something that is discussed and talked about a lot. 

From what I have observed going to the UK for the last couple of years, there is a b understanding of the social model of disability in the UK than there is here in Australia at present. That has helped them push progress in the area of disability along. 

The social model is a framework that disability is caused by the way society is organised, rather than a person's impairment. 

As Marc Brew talked about this morning, the funding bodies have been paying

attention for a long time and investing in this work heavily through programs like Unlimited and others as well. 

They have been supporting Arts & Disability for the last few years, and for Scotland, Unlimited has done its job and they don't need that program. 

A mission statement for diversity, produced by Arts Council England about five years ago, this has been a turning point in the disability agenda as well. I have also got some really key organisations in the UK like the British Council, that Marc mentioned this morning. 

Also to embed things after the London 2012 Games, part of what they do is work to improve the lives of disabled people, with a b focus on the arts. We have to talk about the fact that London held the Olympic and Paralympic games in 2012. They made a strategic decision to highlight the talents of their disabled artists by putting them in the spotlight at the cultural Olympiad. That is what formed Unlimited in the first place. 

Having said all that, let's highlight that with a bit of art. 

Here you can see an image of a new show by artist Liz Carr, a comedian and activist, who performed her work 'Assisted Suicide: The Musical'. 

Here we see a woman singing into a microphone with gold glitter showering her from above. For this work, Liz took a topical taboo, the legislation for assisted suicide which is a bill that went to Parliament last year, and basically made a theatrical extravaganza song and dance which provoked you to think about the issue, about notions of choice, dignity, compassion and quality of life through music, comedy, spectacle and shared humanity. 

Now that I have talked a little bit about the UK, let's have a look at Australia. Hopefully this might explain some of the advantages the UK has had in terms of the progression it has made with arts and disability. And as Padraig mentioned yesterday, they have been working at this for the last 40 years. 

In Australia now, our population percentage is a little higher, but the population is about a third of the UK, giving us a smaller population of disabled artists to draw on. 

Another challenge for us in Australia is our large land mass and our comparatively dispersed geography, which I think limits our ability to connect and for artists to see each other's work. 

In Glasgow I saw more arts and disability work than I could see in probably about two years here in Australia. It is also worth mentioning that some of Australia's leading disabled artists, such as Marc Brew, have found more work overseas. They have chosen to base themselves in places like Scotland where their work is bly

received and supported. 

I think it is important to mention that Australia is at a different point in its arts and disability history, it has also got a relatively short history for supporting disabled artists properly. 

There have been funding programs over the last few years, I'm sure you are aware the Australia Council has a dedicated funding program that will continue to 2017. If you have not done the evaluation survey, quick plug for that, you can do that outside. 

Arts organisations are still waiting to see exactly how the NDIS will pan out for artists, what the growth of the arts and disability sector might be. I'm looking forward to attending the session this afternoon that will discuss the NDIS in more detail. 

To highlight a current example of Australian arts and disability practice, let's look at a program called Off the Record, a collaboration of dance and disability. The picture shows to perform as back-to-back with arms splayed against a black background. 

This is a diverse cast of artists with disability who share their personal story through movement and text. 

It is great to see programs like the New Normal program at Carriageworks, and the four year arts and disability partnership in Perth as well. 

While we have not had the same level of disability art activity, most of the work being created here is a really high quality, being performed at top-level venues like Carriageworks, and being noticed internationally. 

TANDI WILLIAMS: Next we are going to talk a little bit about what we did in the evaluation and what we learnt. We collected information from a variety of sources and had four areas: profile, presentation and artists, exhibition, and delivery. 

We are just going to highlight some of the things we found that could be relevant for Australian artists and arts organisations. 

So looking first at the Unlimited profile. Over the past few years, Unlimited has built a public profile and basically a brand that is recognised increasingly across the UK art sector and beyond. Some of the things that have helped that is investing in really good quality branding. 

When Unlimited was being set up, it was going to be called Extraordinary Ability or something, they got an expert to help them named the program and build a brand that would reflect their ambitions to present high-quality, provocative work. 

It is paying off, but it is something we think needs continual investment to make sure the brand keeps up with the quality of the work in the program. 

The partnership of the Unlimited commissions program with an iconic central London venue of the Southbank Centre, has given the program a real standing and help it attract audiences, presenters and partners. 

I have shown a poster from 2014, with an image of Claire Cunningham perched confidently on crutches above the Thames. 

So the partnering in general is something Unlimited do really well, each partnership allows them to create these synergies and expand into new areas. But they also do it so they don't take on too much themselves. 

Their strategy is to partner with people, help them do work, so that it is embedded in the fabric of the ecology, they are not taking responsibility for doing every aspect of the program themselves. 

That is so that work can be sustained beyond the lifetime of the program. When you have got funding for a defined period, two years or three years, what they are trying to do is embed the working partner organisations so it can continue if their funding is discontinued. 

Unlimited operate in both mainstream and disability specific contexts, and navigate with ease. Last year's Edinburgh Fringe Festival was a real trial, it was immense, it is great to see that Unlimited works, art and disability works, they were throughout the city, peppered throughout the program, there were disability specific discussion events, it was great to see it happening on a number of different levels. 

Unlimited and the British Council made a big push to get disability to the Fringe this year. People were talking about it in the street, noticing the theme of mental health and disability coming through, it was part of the zeitgeist of the Fringe last year. 

It helped them get unprecedented coverage, which brings me to my next point. Unlimited have pushed hard to get coverage of disability arts, and the work is increasingly covered in the mainstream press. They have been able to cultivate a relationship with the journalists in the space. It is an area we identified as a priority, if, as our mission suggests, we want to shift awareness of disabled people. 

That means getting through to mainstream conversations, into the press. I have shown clips from Disability Arts Online and the Guardian. 

Things like the Australian Marketing Sector Conference, you will often see Joe Berry taking to the stage and advocating for disabled participation. 

Things like thought leadership, conference presentations, being involved in lobbying

conversations on various boards. Another further development in the area has been the expansion of the Talks program which sits inside Unlimited at the Southbank Centre. 

We found there are elements of goodwill in the community, but more could be done to reach out, and expose more people to the artistic works of Unlimited. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: The second key area was around programs and artists. One thing Unlimited identified as a potential issue which is holding artists back is this idea of ambition. 

Marc mentioned it as well this morning. 

Prior to Unlimited artists could access small amounts of money through their local councils. Unlimited pushed them to create works on a massive scale. They focused on supporting a small number, I think last round they supported nine commissions out of 160 applications they received. 

They supported a small number of high-quality works of scale, that is how they had an impact overall. It empowered artists to think big and create works they would never have dreamt about before. 

This ambition also comes with the caveat that the work must be able to tour so it has a life beyond the Unlimited festival at Southbank. By touring, it spreads that reach and this has been something that has been very important to Unlimited as part of their work is around shifting perceptions of disabled people around the UK. 

Unlimited is also cultivating a reputation of being very provocative. Charting new territories and being called the last avant-garde. Any of their works in their program are inherently risky and challenge notions of disability. I've got a couple of examples from 2014. It's a work called (inaudible) and it's a sex comedy by a theatre company called Birds of Paradise. It was a critical aesthetic for that piece. 

It was like a sign language interpreter taking time off to eat a Cadbury creme eggs. The captions were up on the screen, and this was set on the screen. The captions have cheeky emoticons. 

Throughout the whole show, we hear from a quite prudish audio describe what is happening in the scene on stage. A very good example of what Marc mentioned this morning. That idea of embedded access and creating an aesthetic for work. Another important aspect is the focus on supporting the next generation of artists to develop their skills and work. In the upcoming commissions around November, they have a strand specifically to support emerging artists for the first time. 

Finally, Unlimited is successful because I think they have a very helpful and hands-on approach to supporting artists.

TANDI WILLIAMS: All of the supported works must be ready to tour. An audience reach is one of the key metrics that the program tracks. Unlimited funding is attached to presentation outcomes to ensure it can be seen by audiences and have the potential to shift perception. 

Not all Unlimited commissions make the cut. The program also experiments with work that use digital technology to help expand audience reach and I have shown on screen, a scene from 'The Idea Revisited' at Southbank which makes use of digital technology. 

To help achieve its ambitions, Unlimited established a network of allies. Presenters across the country who are committed to improving the accessibility of their work for artists as well as audiences. 

Unlimited is quite selective with who they choose to work with as allies. They want to ensure their relatively precious resources - they are actually quite a small team and want to ensure their resources are spent working with those who are absolutely committed and willing to invest in making change. 

This selectiveness does limit the number of people who could potentially be involved and one of the evaluation findings was to find more ways for people to be involved at different levels depending on where they were up to in the access journey. 

Unlimited's work with allies is often documented in case studies and resources. It's available on short films and downloads on their website so others can benefit from the experience their allies go through.

I am showing a screenshot from the Unlimited program which features case studies, hot topics, news resources. It's a fantastically rich resource that doesn't get the audience it deserves. I encourage you to explore it. 

We found that exposure to the artwork and building confidence in presenters and venues are the keys to getting more work programs across the country. 

Many what we call, mainstream presenters, simply haven't seen the work and don't know what they don't know. 

Others are really cautious about the risk factors involved, particularly in the financial climates that we have at the moment in the UK and Australia. One area that the evaluation identifies is the need to develop the business case for the presentation of the work and accessibility improvements so that decision-makers who might not be aware of all the issues have information to guide them through the challenges. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: 

The fourth and final aspect we found was that funding isn't always cheap. Unlimited receives funding from multiple providers in order to do what they do. But they are really realistic about what it costs to deliver to our high quality standard. 

They work with their artists and organisations that apply to them to do exactly the same. Over time, Unlimited have been very careful to be clear on exactly who they are and what they do to avoid any sort of mission creed. 

They are not the only source of funding but they have to make decisions about the best use of the limited resources to ensure the achievement of their overall goals. 

Something else Unlimited does really well is communication. As Tandi mentioned, they have a good way of telling stories about people's lives and sharing these stories is important not just for the longevity of the program but for the greater good of advancing the arts and disability sector in the UK. 

Part of that storytelling is building an evidence base by developing an evaluation framework. They have now established metrics to measure their success and this helps monitor how they are tracking. Where potential areas for improvement might be and the gentlemanly celebrating their success. 

By doing this successfully and by working with people like us, this has helped secure over £2 million of extra funding until 2020. 

So, we have shared some highlights about what is working for Unlimited. We can't assume that all of these points would work in reality in Australia but what we would like to start thinking about is which of those bits can work here? What are we inspired by? And what is our unique Australian advantage? We would love to get a conversation going with you about that this morning. Going to share with you now some prompting takeaways which we've learnt that maybe you were thinking about here in Australia. 

First up, if you are an artist or a producing arts organisation, we encourage you to have a think about this idea of thinking big. Dreaming ambitiously and also thinking long-term to make high-quality works that will have an impact not just for yourself but know that the work you make plays an important part in the development of the arts and disability sector and ecology in this country. 

One way to make great high-quality work is to see as much of each other's work as possible. Including other work by disabled artists and let it inform the way you think about and make your own work. 

Whether you love it or hate it, it will obviously spark more ideas for your next project. 

Another way to improve the quality of your work is to seek feedback from trusted advisers, friends, other artists, critics. Anyone. One thing we don't have a b culture of

in Australia is professional critical reviews of work for our disabled artists. Simon Darcy actually mentioned this in his lecture yesterday. Many artists are scared to review the work openly and honestly so I think we should work towards encouraging critical feedback to ensure high quality. 

If you're a producer, I think is an important role for you to play by assist thing by providing honest feedback. We need to be realistic but about what we need to do it well. 

Producing poor quality works isn't really going to shift the perception in the public eye. Another thing to think about if you're an artist is this idea of embedding access. Marc Brew explained it brilliantly about the advantages of building access right from day one in the rehearsal studio and the benefits of seeing access as part of the process and the aesthetic. 

TANDI WILLIAMS: 

On-screen is an excellent example of embedding access. Jess has Tourette's syndrome and she has built a show that is quite frankly, hilarious. 

If you're a presenting organisation, the takeaway we think is to seek out high-quality disability work that is highly provocative so it has potential to shift perception. It is interesting to see that a lot of our major festivals are starting to take serious interest in the work and seeing great value in it. The Melbourne festival happening next month will present just as work as well as presenting the back-to-back theatre work, 'Lady Eats Apple'. 

Both of these two organisations, Carriageworks and PIAF have committed to support this work over a number of years which is tremendously exciting. 

Arts can be very exciting in the mainstage and mainstream programming. It doesn't need its own festival like Unlimited but that is also fantastic. The more it is seen, the more it can shift perception. 

As a presenter who has presented this work, I also help other presenters help learn from your experience. Unlimited, through its allies program has also shown us the value of establishing viable touring networks. 

Touring is one of the biggest opportunities for the Australian market. We had an internationally renowned sellout earlier this year but her work was not seen by many people as it could have been. Due potentially to lack of b network in the touring states so I hope our vision is to find better opportunities to tour their work so it can be seen more often. 

From a research perspective, Unlimited is one of the savviest operators as I've seen. They advocate with passion, influence and with evidence and this is really powerful. 

A key takeaway is to build a b evidence base around the work you do and measure your achievement as much is possible to grow your influence. 

That brings us to funding. Investing in works of scale. At a certain point in our career, we know artists need more than 5K to ensure ambitious work. To ensure there is funding at that level to stretch artists. It can have an impact across the country and the arts sector, raising the bar and our expectations of what is possible. 

We think that funders could also use the role to and influence to connect to opportunities. 

Could they act as brokers? Could they look at where they could influence change outside of pure funding? Could they help disseminate and celebrate the work? So we can all spread the success stories of where it works. 

Hopefully this has provoked some ideas of things we could consider here in Australia. It would be great to advance the work of our disabled artists further, we would love to hear your thoughts. At any time you can contact us, or we will hang around after the session if you have got questions or ideas. We would love to hear from you. Thank you. 

(Applause) 

LISA HAVILAH: Thank you so much. Thank you so much Morwenna and Tandi. 

We have 10 minutes, and I'm sure you have got a million questions. So we should start. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: Hello, my name is Jelo, I want to say, what message do you give to people with other disabilities? 

MORWENNA COLLETT: Keep making amazing work, I think, is the takeaway. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: I have got a question about the importance of touring. I mean, I understand the importance of touring, but how does that happen in the UK, in terms of access? How do they find accessible venues, both backstage and front of stage? 

MORWENNA COLLETT: Something they have been learning about on the go. The original Unlimited festival

in 2012, when they asked artists to think big, they made art that was too big to tour, so in 2014 they added this caveat that works must be able to tour. 

They have got an allies program, they are proactively working with venues to encourage them to improve their access. To build up a body of venues, to have conferences and conversations with venues. By no means are they all perfect or all accessible, but they are talking about it in lots of different forums. 

The role Unlimited is playing in that is playing that role of producer, doing some of that brokering for others to assist when they can. 

LISA HAVILAH: So gathering data as they go along. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: Yes, they have a lovely network. They know who is interested in that work, what venues are accessible in different ways. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: Hello, I'm Ian Armb. You mentioned in your talk, there seems to be quite a focus from Unlimited on works of quality and excellence. Given that a lot of artists experience barriers accessing tertiary education, how does Unlimited fund beginning or emerging artists who are yet to develop works of quality, but need support and encouragement to begin on the journey? 

TANDI WILLIAMS: It's a really good point, and one of the things our evaluation considered is in the pipeline, if you will, of new works and of artists. It is something Unlimited has developed in over time. 

The most recent iteration has a stream for emerging artists alongside their stream program. They are given not the same amount of funding, but a range of different options in terms of their support and mentoring, to help them develop their practice. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: Something they have done in the last round is funded not only full commissions but R&Ds, and they have a separate program to provide mentoring for young artists as well. 

The main program is to support the very best established artists. Unlimited is certainly not the only funding opportunity in the UK. They work closely with organisations like Creative Scotland, to make it easy for artists to apply for their programs as well. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: This is an incredibly centralised model, do you think it impacts on the diversity of art

and disability practice in the UK? And then thinking about that in terms of what is required in Australia, do you think... Should there be a centralised model like this, that brings that focus? Or is it more important to protect the diversity of institutions across government. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: The first part of the question, Unlimited has tried to support a diverse range of practice from different regions, different art forms, art forms between art forms, performance live art, that is an interesting space that certainly artists in the UK are exploring really well. 

One of the benefits of having a program like Unlimited, it brings a wonderful spotlight to that work and gives it a platform. One of the advantages of having a model like Unlimited is time. That is something Padraig talked about. This program originally started in 2007 or 2009. 

Artists don't have to make a work by tomorrow, it puts the spotlight on them, guarantees funding for a long period of time to make a work. Having said that, Unlimited comes with a very large amount of money to be able to do that. 

It would be great if we had that in Australia. So that is the big question, really. I think. 

TANDI WILLIAMS: I think it is a case of either or, parallel. I think it is sustaining both, interacting. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: It can be very hard to break through with reviews, or just embedding art in normal media. News programs, whatever. 

TANDI WILLIAMS: It certainly is a tricky area, not one there is an easy answer to. One of the ways Unlimited have pursued it is through relationships with individual journalists, helping them understand the creative process, the issues related to a work, and cultivating that relationship over time. 

But it is kind of chicken and the egg, as the works emerge and are seen, they gather attention. It builds alongside the high quality of the works. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: They have this amazing organisation in the UK called Disability Arts Online, would be great if we had it in Australia, any journo in the room want to start that up? 

They worked with The Guardian, they mentored a Guardian critic on how to critically review work by disabled artists. That worked really well, that critic has gone on to continue reviewing work by disabled artists. It is really great. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: I had a question about the Australia Council disability arts funding, and whether you are aware if they have committed or are thinking about committing to extending that program. We know that next year is the final year of that three-year commitment. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: Slightly off topic, there, Simone. Putting my other hat on, the Australia Council hat, we are currently evaluating a disability action plan and doing a phase 1 of our arts disability dedicated funding program. As Simone mentioned, we are three years through the current four-year commitment of that funding program. 

I encourage you to visit my colleagues outside on your way out and complete that survey if you have not already. Hearing from you guys about what you need to continue to enable us to support this sector over the next couple of years, it will help inform questions like the continuation of that funding program, which will be dependent on two things, the evaluation we are working on the moment and next year's budget. 

SPEAKER: Sorry. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: Made her walk across the other side of the room! 

The way London used the Olympics in 2012 to align themselves with the art sector, it kind of felt like a big bang for the arts sector over there and this model of arts assistance, showcasing, presenting. Do you think Australia needs to look at an opportunity like... I'm not saying it is another Olympics or something, but do we need another big bank to reinvigorate financially, change the mindset and the language, everything we need to do to create the same kind of model as an Unlimited? 

Or do we just need to look at an Unlimited and reinvigorate what we have currently got. 

MORWENNA COLLETT: Again, I think both would be great. I am pleased to mention we have got the Commonwealth Games in Australia in 2018. One of the programmers for the Commonwealth games arts program was in Unlimited looking at work to potentially bring international art over for the Commonwealth games. 

2012, London Olympics and Paralympic games had an unparalleled level of support London threw at it. We did not see that with Rio. 

Maybe the Commonwealth Games could be the start of our big bang here in Australia. 

Money will be part of that. A big bang is not the only way to go, but it works great for Unlimited. It would be great if Australia had something like that. 

LISA HAVILAH: Just put in my two cents in, it would be great if it is inclusive and diverse, there are not enough caveats around that art development. 

We have got time for two more questions. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: Just a follow-on to what Tim was just saying, we did hold the first disability arts festival in Queensland last year, a lot of work, very fantastic, we wanted to make it a biannual event but it is very tight to get the funding. We have made a start, we are doing some great work, but we can't continue in that form. 

We did have some international artists, it was high-quality. I wondered, you have not got a magic wand, is that... What are your views with what may happen with the budget next year, whether there is going to be something? 

We are going to have to go rob a bank. 

(Laughter) 

MORWENNA COLLETT: We thought it would happen two years ago, look how that turned out. I would not bet money on it. 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: Hi, everyone, Marc Brew again. London 2012, what made that work so well was it was written into their bid that the arts and culture, the Olympics and the Paralympics would work together. 

I think it being embedded into the policy, written into it, is very important. 

LISA HAVILAH: Maybe that is one question we can put to the audience, whether we need to focus on building and strengthening our existing ecosystem, or whether we need a big bang. 

Two things that we need to focus on strengthening our existing system? Who thinks we need the Big Bang? And who thinks we need both? 

QUESTION FROM FLOOR: One last question, my name is Alex. With the Unlimited experience of the last two years, after evaluation a label to get information about audience participation in mainstream? How much the audience actually participates from mainstream over the

years and whether that is worthwhile because really, it's a good selling point for us in Australia and our contacts to talk about the marketing and reaching people and the social impact and that is there within that, just wondering whether there is something you can share about that. 

TANDI WILLIAMS: Morwenna touched on the different elements that got in place, one is artistic assessment, one is stakeholder and another is measuring the reach.

They measured a tracking study to measure the audience reach of Unlimited works. In terms of the Arts and Disability Grants Program, it's a very difficult thing to assess particularly because of the way it works and is defined. Some works you'll find it is very clear in the marketing of the work what it is about and whether the artist has a disability or not. 

Others focus on the artistic elements of it and don't use to define themselves in this way so it is a complex thing to try and understand. I think it is important to look at in terms of Australian audiences, people are attending and what they are getting out of that performance in terms of the artistic experience. 

Looking at emotional resonance, social bonding, all those things audiences experience when they go and see work of art and disability.  

MORWENNA COLLETT: They're all about sharing those numbers and this is just an infographic they've put together. From 2013 to 2016 there has been 1797 performances of Unlimited commissioned programs and they have been seen by over 130,000 people so they're really good at tracking those numbers but again, reiterates the point about telling stories and building evidence bases through numbers. 

(Applause)