A Broadcast on Reality

7/28/2019 A Broadcast on Reality

1/38

A BR OADCAST ON RE ALITYIN

AMERICA

By

H.H. PARAM DAYAL

FA QI R C HA ND J I M AH AR AJ

Manavta Mandir, Hoshiarpur

Published by:

F a q i r L i b r ar y C h ar i ta b le Tr u s tM a n av t a M a n d i r, S u t h e r i R o a d,

H O S HI A P U R ( P b . I n d i a)

A BR OADCAST ON RE ALITYAMERICA


2/38

PHOTOGRAPHOF

H is H ol in es s P ar am D a ya l J i M ah ar aj


3/38

P R E F A C E

I have been to America three times. If I remain alive, I may

visit once again in the year 1980. My mission of going there is in

compliance with the wish of my Spiritual Father Maharishi Shiv Brat

L a l J i M a h ar a j . N o pr e c e pto r i n the h i s tor y o f s a in ts h as e v e r pr a i s ed

h i s d is c i pl e s o m uc h a s Hi s H o li n e ss D a ta Da y a l J i h a s w r i tte n i n m y

praise. I informed him through an express telegram at the last

moment of his life:-

I s o l e mn l y p r o mi s e th a t I w i l l s p r e ad th e te a c hi n g s o f th e

religion of saints throughout the universe to the best of my ability

and circumstances.

N a tu r e b r o u g h t D r . I.C . S h a r m a , P r o fe s s o r o f P h i l o s o p h ya n d R e l i g i o n i n m y c o n ta c t. A s a m a tte r o f fa c t, h e h a s i n te r e s te d

i n a tta i n i n g th e h i g h e s t p u r p o s e o f l i fe . In th e y e a r 1 9 5 9 ,

s o m e o n e ' s i m a g e a p p e a r e d w i th i n h i m a n d to l d h i m th a t h e w o u l d

a c h i e v e th e g o a l o f l i fe i n th i s v e r y l i fe . In th e y e a r 1 9 6 5 , i t s o

h a p p e n e d th a t h e c a m e to m e w h e n I w a s g i v i n g d i s c o u r s e i n B i r l a

M a n d i r , D e l h i a n d n a r r a te d th a t i t w a s m y i m a g e w h i c h h a d

a p p e a r e d w i th i n h i m i n th e y e a r 1 9 5 9 a n d to l d h i m th a t h e w o u l dg e t s a l v a ti o n i n th i s v e r y l i fe . H e w a s p r o c e e d i n g to U .S .A . fo r

th r e e m o n th s fo r d e l i v e r i n g l e c tu r e s o n P h i l o s o p h y . H e s o u g h t m y

b l e s s i n g s fo r s u c c e s s i n h i s m i s s i o n . I to o k o u t a o n e r u p e e n o te

fr o m m y p o c k e t a n d w r o te o n i t, L u c k to I.C . S h a r m a a n d h a n d e d

i t o v e r to h i m . I a s k e d h i m to ta k e w i th h i m c o p i e s o f m y p e r i o d i c a l

B E - M A N w h i c h w o u l d h e l p h i m to m a k e a p o i n t a n d e x p r e s s

h i m s e l f to We s te r n p e o p l e .


4/38

Nature works wonders. The term of his appointment in

U.S.A. was extended from three months to three years. He earned

enough money and called his family there. It is surprising that during

the course of his lectures, my image appeared before him andguided him to say such and such things. He always announced that

D a y al Fa q ir w a s b efo r e h im a n d g ui d i ng h i m to tel l s u c h an d s u ch

things. The American audience, who attended Dr. Sharma's

lectures, had gained the impression that Dayal Faqir from India

appeared within him. They too had vision of my image and whatever

my image told them was fulfilled. Under the influence of those

visions, the Americans persuaded Dr. I.C. Sharma to invite me to inU.S.A. and that is the reason, why I went there.

This time when I went there, they arranged the broadcast of

my discourse from Radio and Television, which was also tape

recorded. Prof. B.R. Kamal has given those Broadcasts, the form of

a book, which I offer to the people of U.S.A. and the world so that I

may be free from the duty of suitably changing the teachings of s a in t s b ef o re l ea v in g t h e p h ys i ca l f r am e t h e d u ty w h ic h wa s

entrusted to me by my preceptor. It was a play of Nature but I do not

c l a im th a t wh a tev e r I u nd e r sto o d or r e a li s e d is fi n a l. I w i l l b e m os t

lucky if other Saints and Savants who may be followers of any faith,

advise me if they realise that I am wrong. But it should not be based

on book-knowledge, because the books of every faith and religion

a r e fu ll o f s u b je c t w h ic h e v i nc e i n ter e s t o r in c i te fea r. I h a v eabsolutely no claim that my version is correct.

I was indebted to my preceptor for the assignment but I did

not want to do this work. For this purpose, I went to Hazur Baba

S a w an S i ng h J i M a h ar a j o f B e as i n J an . 1 94 2 a nd te l li n g hi m m y

disinclination to carry out this work, sought his advice so that I might

be relieved of the debt of my Guru. He asked me why did I not want


5/38

to do this duty. I told him that I would always speak the blunt truth

and the people of the world are not ready to hear the same. He was

a true man. He told me that he himself could not pour forth the Truth.

W h y s o ? F i rs t ly, b ec a us e th e ge n er a l p ub l ic w as , as y et , no tdesirous of accepting the Truth and secondly, because he had his

own centre. He advised me to work fearlessly and told that he would

always be at my support. I have been propounding my ideas on the

basis of my observations and experiences for the last forty years.

Now pray to DATA DAYAL, the Supreme Lord from the core of my

heart that in case whatever I said is wrong, he may remove me from

this earth, so that people of the world may not be misled.

FAQIR


6/38

BROADCASTS

John Eastman: - We have tonight a Holy Man from IndiaFaqir D a y al . I h o p e I' m p r on o u nc i n g it a r i g h t, a n d i f n ot w e ' ll g e t i tstraightened out as we go along in the next half hour on the Talk of Tampa Bay. We'll take a news break with Jeff Millnoff and talk withour guest here in the studio and begin again. So, don't go away.

NEWS

John Eastman: - It's 10:32 on the Talk of Tampa Bay. I'm JohnEastman a n d tel e p ho n e l in e s w il l s h o rtl y b e o p en . We h a v e a v e r yinterested guest this evening. I must honour you with the fact thatour guest is 92 years old. Am I pronouncing his name right when I'msaying Faqir Dayal?

Marcia: - Faqir Dayal, that's right.

John Eastman: - I want to take a few minutes with the audiencet oni gh t t o g iv e y ou s om e i de a o f h ow t hi s g en tl em an a rr iv ed he re a ndI 'm not cert ain of how the conversat ion will go. We had an int erest edm or ni ng o n t he t el ev is io n t hi s m or ni ng . I d on 't k no w i f y ou w at ch ed m y

show or not. But, we had a young woman who is a marvelous singer and I pref aced the pr ogramme as I went on t he air, her name is Melbya nd s he 's ou t o f t he 1 96 0' s a nd I p re fa ce d t ha t pr og ra mm e b y s ay in g: We ha ve n o i de as wh at w e ar e g oi ng t o d o t hi s m or nin g, b ut it 's k in d of a spirit ual event that we will have to f ind it s own way. So we will give itits own way and that's why we're going to do with the next half hour.With the guests that are with me in the studio and with me is MarciaM il ler an d M ar ci a, I b el ie ve , wa s r es pon si ble f or c al li ng S us an ne a nd

saying this distinguished gentleman is going to be in the city and we


7/38

can find some manner, whatever the manner might be, in order topresent his view point , we should do so and so we are at this momentat 10:30 and at this particular night in the light of the full moon and weare going t o talk about the spirit uality of t he I ndian Nation, hopefully.

And, Marcia, I'd like you to tell me the story of how you have arrivedupon my threshold?

Marcia Miller: - A l ri g ht , w el l w e me t F aq ir D ay a l 2 y ea r s a g o w he nhe was visiting this country for the second time and went to ameeting where he was and heard him speak and we thought he wasb e a uti fu l a n d fe l l i n l ov e w ith h i m th e n . I tr a ve l l ed w i th h i m fo r 20days at that point. We went up to Washington, Maryland and

Virginia. He is a beautiful, incredible person and I learned an awfullot from him.

John Eastman: - I'm sure you have and I hope I'm going to have thesame opportunity tonight. I hope the languages differences don'tget in our way. And, I'm going to trust you tonight if you don't mind.There is a gentleman sitting next to you, whom I'd like you tointroduce me to.

Marcia Miller: - O.K. This is Dr. Ram. And he is with Faqir as hiscompanion. He has travelled over with him from India, and he is adoctor of Homeopathic Medicines there.

John Eastman: - If you will slide that microphone a little bit to Dr.Ram. Dr. Ram and I will talk for a moment. O.K. Dr. Ram I'm anAmerican.

Dr. Ram: - I a m i n A m e r i c a a s a S e c r e ta r y to H i s H o l i n e s s Fa q i r D a y a l J i M a h a r a j a s w e l l a s H i s P e r s o n a l P h y s i c i a n . I h a v e b e e nw i th h i m fo r th e l a s t 2 1 y e a r s . I w e n t to H i s H o l i n e s s w h e n I w a sn o t h a v i n g a n y p e a c e o f m i n d i n th i s w o r l d . Th e n a fr i e n d o f m i n ea s k e d m e to g o to H i s H o l i n e s s to a tta i n th i s o b j e c t. I w e n t to th ep l a c e o f r e s i d e n c e o f H i s H o l i n e s s a t H o s h i a r p u r a n d l i s te n e d toH i s S e r m o n s w h i c h w e r e w o n d e r fu l . I c a n n o t e x p r e s s m yg r a ti tu d e to w a r d s h i m fo r th e b e n e fi t th a t I g a i n e d fr o m h i s h o l y


8/38

fe e t. H e i s th e g r e a te s t m a n o f th i s a g e a n d w h a te v e r h ee x p r e s s e s i s g r e a t tr u th . Wh o s o e v e r c o m e s i n h i s c o n ta c tb e c o m e s p e a c e fu l , b e c a u s e h e i s a n o c e a n o f p e a c e i n h i m s e l f.Th e s e a r e m y o b s e r v a ti o n s .

John Eastman: - T ha t is a m ar ve ll ou s t hi ng t o sa y o f an y h um anbeing. To set a human being aside and to embrace him, as you havein that momentary speech, is quite compelling to me.

Dr. Ram: - I have completed 46 years. I have not seen such a man inmy life. He is practical. Every action of His is practical. I am with Himfor the last 21 years and I have always found him practical.

John Eastman: - We have that something in America. We havey o u ng p e o p le s e e k i ng p e a c e . A n u m be r o f s p i r i tu a l In d ia n l e a de r shave come to America, Maharaj Ji and a number of other, and theyhave caught the imagination of American youth. Young people havesought the advice of His Holiness or people like him. I wonder whyyou think the Indian Philosophy is different from the philosophy thatis offered by Eastern Religion or by the people attempting the same

thing here.

Dr. Ram: - I mean to say that when I came into his contact, he toldme the art of living, by following which I became peaceful. And this isthe main object of life. I consider His Holiness the embodiment of p e ac e . W h en y ou w il l l i st e n t o hi m , h e wi l l r e al l y e x te nd h is i d ea s t oyou. The philosophy of Indian culture is a very deep and vast subjectand it will take me a long time to explain.

John Eastman: - If w e h av e a l a ng u a ge d i ffi c ul ty o r i f th er e i sanything I say that is not easily understood, would you mind beingmy translator and may we get to this because I really want to askthat one question the question is The meaning of life andthe manner by which one lives it from your view- point.

His Holiness: - That power is bigger. The aim of life is to realise theTruth. While coming to this place I was thinking in my mind: Faqir


9/38

Chand, you are 92 years old, why have you come here? This was aquestion in my mind, when I was coming in a car to this place. I feel Imyself and the whole world are being dragged. There is somepower, which makes us to move and to do certain things. Some call

th a t P o we r n a tur e a n d s om e c a l l i t Go d . I c a l l i t a d e s i re ( o r fa i th ) o f man's ownself.

Why I am in this world? I was born as a Hindu in a Brahmanfamily in Hoshiarpur district of Punjab State in India. From my verychildhood I was in search of something unknown to me. Thissomething I used to call God, Rama, Ishwar or Parmeshwar. Myl i fe pa s s ed o n . Ti l l th e a ge o f 1 6 y ea r s I w as q u i te a l l r i g ht, p u r e-

minded, loving and doing everything good. But when I was 17 yearsold I joined bad society and due to this bad society I ate meat for sixmonths, took rum three times, gambled once and lost Rupee oneand four annas and went to a prostitute once. Then being aBrahman, an idea struck my mind in 1904 A.D., when Kangra Valleywas destroyed by a severe earthquake. I repented in my mind for my bad actions. I prayed to God to lead me to the life which may bebetter for me. In 1905 A.D., I wept continuously for 24 hours,

because I was given an idea by our religious books that supremepower comes in this world as an incarnation. So, I prayed andprayed crying 'O Lord' come to me in human form, so that I may beforgiven and granted peace. Then a vision of my mind took me to theH o ly f e et o f m y Sp i ri t ua l F a th e r Ma h ar i sh i S h iv B r at L a l Ve r ma n ,M.A., LL.D. He gave me the teachings of the saints, wherein theyh a v e d e n ou n c ed a ll th e r e l ig i o ns o f th e w o r ld . Th e y s a y R a m a a n dKrishna did not reach the goal, Hazrat Mohammad did not reach the

g o a l a n d J es u s C hr i s t d i d n o t r ea c h the g o a l . I wa s p e r pl e x ed a n dthought where had I come? They had condemned every one. Then Id e ter m i ne d a nd to o k a v o w i n m y mi n d tha t I s h al l fo l l ow th i s pa th o f the saints with sincerity. I have never spoken untruth in the whole of my life. And I have never gone to any women except my own wifeand that too for some time. My Spiritual Father gave me orders thusin 1933 AD. : Stereotyped religion will be of no value Faqir Chand;you should change the religious teachings before leaving your p h y si c a l fr a m e.


10/38

John Eastman: - You must help me. You must do that again moresimply. I must understand. What you are saying; but, I haven'tunderstood it clearly.

His Holiness: - M y S p ir i tu al F a th e r M a ha r is h i S h iv Br a t L a l J i g av em e o r d er s i n 1 9 3 3 A D i n a g e n e r al g a the r i ng ( g e n er a l S a ts an g ) th a t Imust change the teachings of Religion, before leaving my physicalframe, that is before my death. I was unable to understand on whatauthority those saints had condemned all the religions. What righth a d th ey to d e n ou n c e a ll r e l ig i o ns ? I c o u ld n o t fo l lo w i t. I d i d fo ll o wthe path of deep meditation of Yoga, but I could not understand it.Then I went in the 1st world war. I am an ex-service man. On my

return from the war field, I went to my Spiritual father Data Dayal Ji. Iw o r ri e d a nd tr o ub l e d hi m to o m u c h to s h ow m e th e R e a l Go d an dalso insisted to be told the reasons on the basis of which it wasclaimed that only saints had reached the destination and none else.Then he gave me this duty to work as a spiritual teacher, to initiatepeople and to deliver discourses. And he told me, You will get thissecret from your disciples. Now, I have come here to disclose thatsecret which I have understood. What that secret is, I want to tell

you. People meditate on my features. To those who meditate uponmy form, my image appears either in their dream, in their wakefulness or in their meditation. That image of mine guides thema n d s o lv e s th e ir w o r l dl y, a s w e l l a s s p i ri tu a l p r o bl e m s; w h e r ea s I a mn o t i n th e k n ow o f i t.

(Mr. John: - Please repeat again, I have not understood it.)

Yes; I repeat again. People meditate upon my image and myimage appears before them in their wakeful state, in their dreams or in their meditation. My image guides them and their desires arefulfilled or their work is done. I have met a man who said to me,Baba Ji, when you fall sick, do you go to a doctor? I said, Yes. Hesaid, I do not go to any doctor. I asked him what he did. He said,Baba Ji, I remember you, you come, dictate me the medicine, I goto Bazaar, purchase the medicine and get cured. On the contrary,when I am sick when I am sick I have t o go t o a doctor for consultation.


11/38

Do you follow what I am telling you? There are about a thousand of such cases before me. There is no time to explain them. But, onei n c id e n t I m a y tel l y o u . Ve r y r ec e n tly o n e MB B S d o c tor S h . Ja g j itSingh (an Ex-Finance Minister of Punjab Govt.), wrote me about an

thincident and then he himself related the same story on 13 of Aprilfrom the platform in the presence of about 10 thousand people. Hetold that when he was in Canada, he was going to North Canada in asmall helicopter. Suddenly the weather changed and there wassnow and heavy storm and their helicopter had forced landing. Itwas too cold and he was shivering. He though he would die there.He said that while he was shivering with cold and preparing to die,he saw a great circle of light in which I appeared and I asked Dr.

J a g ji t S i n gh to fo l lo w m e . I l ed h i m to the r e d In di a n s a n d d ir e c tedhim to take shelter there for two hours and told him that the weather would be all right and he would go on. Dr. Jagjit Singh said that Isaved him. I swear upon my honour that I have no knowledge of it.When Dr. Jagjit Singh came of the dais and related this incident, Isaid that he was my real Master/Guru. There are many such cases; Ihave given you an example of only one learned MBBS doctor. Nowf r om al l s u ch in c id e nt s , I ha v e c o me to th i s c o nc l us i on , t h at

whatever any man gets, that is the outcome of, his own faith andbelief. No Rama, no Krishna, no Jesus Christ, no Guru and no Faqir Chand come from without to help or guide any one. The power thathelps the man is in man, but he is ignorant of it. Man is perfect inhimself. He is perfect model of nature. Everything is in the man.Everything is in the man with certain limitations.

John Eastman: - I really like what you've just said. Man is a perfect

model of nature. Everything is in him.

His Holiness: - M a n is s u ffe r in g d ue to h is i g n or a n ce . Wh y d o I d othis work? I run three charitable hospitals. I write books and allpublications are given free of cost. Why do I do this? I have notopened the hospital to earn money. But, because the Govt. rules arethat the donations received in a year must be spent by the trust inthe same year otherwise the money would go the Govt. As themoney, received as donations, was much more than we used to


12/38

spend, so I was obliged to open the hospitals in order to make bestuse of the donations.

After a life-long research, I have come to this conclusion, that

due to ignorance, man considers that some power from outsidecome to help him. But in reality, the power is within the man himself.You may give any name to thi s power. You may call it God, you mayc a l l i t C h ri s t o r yo u m ay c a l l i t n a tu r e .

John Eastman: - Alright, I do understand you perfectly. Let me askyou some other questions that have to do with that idea. Now, theIndian Philosophy, (the India idea as presented to the neive

American to myself). The Indian idea is that the entire human bodyis an inner relationI'm trying to say this so that you will understandme. Do you understand me? That every organ, that every aspect of o u r ph y s ic a l s e l f i s re l a ted to e v e r y o th er a nd w he n the y a r e a l lworking in perfect (and karma is your word) unison or karma thenthe man is spiritually whole.

Because what you have said is wholeistic. You have said

Man is own God-he has all the power.

His Holiness: - Yes, man has got powers up to certain limitations.He cannot claim to be all-powerful.

John Eastman: - Alright, but what I'm trying to get tois how fromy o u r p o i nt o f v ie w m a n go e s wr o n g. Tha t i s , w h e n th i ng s a r e no tfunctioning. If you say that the wholeistic man, the total manwhen

a ll h is or ga n- sy st em s, al l h is me nt al p ro ce ss es ar e w or ki ng inunison with one anotherthen he would be capable of what youhave just described. One is out of whac and he is not capable if hismind is not clean or clear. It is not functioning and I want you to helpme understand that better.

His Holiness: - Man cannot be capable of it without having clean or clear mind. Man can be perfect only by doing good and by followingc e r tai n p r i nc i p le s o f m e d i ta ti on a n d p r a cti c a l l i fe . B ut e v e r y p e r so n


13/38

c a n no t b e p er fe c t. A fte r al l m a n is m a n . Th e re a r e v er y fe w p e r so n swhom we can call perfect men. To become a perfect man, one is tofo l lo w c e r tai n i n s tr u c tio n s . I a m d oi n g th is w o r k to tel l th e w o rl d : ' O'men, why are you fighting for religion or in the name of God? He,

whom you think as your God, is your own manifestation. It is your own faith and your own belief. The real God does not live here.

(Mr. John: The real God does not live here?)

His Holiness: - Yes, the Real God does not live here. Only His raysare here, as the sun does not exist on this earth, its rays come to thisearth. If the sun comes down to this earth, then everything will be

burnt. There will be all fire and fire and nothing else. Similarly if thatReal God comes to this earth, there will be nothing but onenessaltogether. Have you understood me?

John Eastman: - I must have help. I have understood you, but, Ihave not perceived you.

His Holiness: - I f th at R ea l G od c om es h er e, t he re w il l b e al l

o n e ne s s h er e . N ei th e r yo u n o r I sh a l l e x i s t. N e i the r th e re s h a ll b eany sun or earth. There shall be one infinite. How? I give you anexample. You know battery? There is current and electromotiveforce in the battery. This EMF is measured by voltage. Currentcomes out of that voltage and works whereas the voltage remains atits centre. The current comes from voltage and goes back after doing its work. Now you can well imagine that if voltage moves out of its centre what would be the result. Similarly, that supreme power

remains at its sublime centre of infinite from which this world oozesout and merges back after a due cycle of time.

(Mr. John: Yes, I understand that.)

H is H ol in es s: - So, what I want to say is that when India was dividedi nt o t wo n at io ns i .e . I ndi a a nd P ak is ta n, t her e w as gr ea t b lo od -s he d.People c ut t hroats of each other. M uslims c ut t hroats o f H indus andSikhs whereas Hindus and Sikhs cut t hroats of Muslims. Now Arabs


14/38

and Israelites are fighting, (excuse me), Why? It is all due toignorance. Followers of one religion think others as alien. For M us lim s, Hi ndu s a re s ep ar at e a nd f or Ch ri st ia ns J ew s a re s epa ra te .T he t ru th i s t ha t w e a ll a re h um an b ei ng s.

John Eastman: - Yours is an argument for mankind.

His Holiness: - Ye s , th is i s w h a t I w an t to s a y to th e m an k i nd . Wh y Ihave disclosed the secret, which was not disclosed by any other earlier? The earlier saints only gave hints of this secret. That time isgone by. Now don't you see, what is happening in this world? It is alldue to ignorance. This ignorance cannot be removed unless true

knowledge is imparted. Due to this ignorance of the masses, wemahatmas have exploited the world. They have robbed us, theyhave cheated us and they have befooled us. They never goanywhere to help anybody, in his dream or meditation, but still theytake credit of helping the people. People bow to them, prostratethem and offer their hard-earned money to them. Is it not the fault of M a h atm a s ? N ow I te l l y o u a b ou t m y o w n s el f. P e o pl e c o m e to m e tok n o w th e tr uth o r fo r k no w i ng th e r e al i ty. Th e y c o m e for th e i r ow n

material objectives. Someone comes and says, Baba Ji, I am sick.Another comes and says, Baba Ji, I have this problem. They comefor the solution of their worldly problems. They are ignorant. Thisworld is not for ever.

John Eastman: - It is also full of fear.

His Holiness: - Fu l l o f fea r, fu ll o f d is e a se s , fu l l o f s or r o ws a nd fu ll o f

happiness and pleasures also. This world is of Trinity and duality.Nothing is ever-lasting.

John Eastman: - I u n d e r s ta n d th a t. Oh , I u n d e r s ta n d y o u v e r yw e l l . N o w , l e t m e s h a r e s o m e th i n g w i th y o u . We ' r e g o i n g to ta k e al i ttl e b r e a k ; w e ' r e g o i n g to c o m e b a c k . I h a v e a n u m b e r o f p e o p l ew h o o b v i o u s l y w a n t to ta l k to y o u . We ' r e g o i n g to ta k e th ete l e p h o n e c a l l s . B u t I m u s t s p e n d a fe w m o r e m i n u te s w i th y o u .We h a v e n o t d o n e o u r b u s i n e s s y e t, S i r . We m u s t d o a l i ttl e m o r e .


15/38

We a r e g o i n g to ta k e a fe w m o m e n ts n o w , to ta k e a b r e a k . I a mh o n o u r e d w i th m y g u e s t to n i g h t. I w a s s o m e w h a t a p p r e h e n s i v e o f th e p r o g r a m m e b e c a u s e I h a v e n e v e r h a d th e o p p o r tu n i ty o f th e9 2 y e a r s o l d fo r e i g n m a n i n m y s tu d i o . B u t, i t i s tu r n i n g o u t q u i te

n i c e l y . Fa q i r D a y a l M y g u e s t th i s e v e n i n g a l o n g w i th D r . R a ma n d M a r c i a M i l l e r w h o h a d th e g o o d i n s i g h t to b r i n g h i m to u s . Ith i n k w e ' l l h a v e a p l e a s a n t h o u r w i th y o u r h e l p . We ' l l l i s te n to th en e w s w i th J e ff M i l l n o ff a n d w e ' l l l i s te n to a l i ttl e b i t m o r e a b o u t ap h i l o s o p h y th a t i s n o t n e c e s s a r i l y o u r s b u t p e r h a p s i s m o r e o u r sth a n w e k n o w . We ' l l fi n d o u t w h e n w e c o m e b a c k . Th e n e w s i sn e x t d o n ' t g o a w a y s i x m i n u te s a fte r 1 1 :0 0 O' c l o c k a n d b y m yo w n o p i n i o n h e r e th i s i s a r a th e r i n te r e s ti n g e v e n i n g . B u t, i t i s

a l s o s o m e w h a t d i ffi c u l t, I w o u l d g u e s s , to g r a s p th e w h o l e o f. Weh a v e d o n e m o r e th a n 2 1 s h o w s s i n c e I h a v e b e e n o n th e Ta l k o f Ta m p a B a y o n th e s u b j e c t o f m a n . It i s i n th a t s a m e q u e s t to n i g h tth a t w e a r e p u r s u i n g th e i n fo r m a ti o n th a t c a n b e p r o v i d e d b y o u r g u e s t. N i n e ty Tw o y e a r s o l d H o l y m a n S p i r i tu a l l e a d e r o f In d i a .H i s n a m e i s Fa q i r D a y a l a n d w e a r e i n q u i r i n g a s to th e n a tu r e o f h i s b e l i e f a n d h o w p e r h a p s w e c a n e m p l o y i t o u r s e l v e s to b e al i ttl e b i t b e tte r p e o p l e o r to p e r h a p s u n d e r s ta n d th e n a tu r e o f o u r

u n i v e r s e a l i ttl e m o r e fu l l y . Wi th Fa q i r D a y a l i s th e w o m a n w h o i sr e a l l y r e s p o n s i b l e fo r h a v i n g b r o u g h t h i m to Ta m p a . Th e r e i sg o i n g to b e a s p e a k i n g e n g a g e m e n t o r s o m e th i n g th a t s h e w i l l te l lu s a b o u t. A n d w i th h e r i s a l s o D r . R a m w h o i s w i th Fa q i r D a y a l a n di s h i s p e r s o n a l p h y s i c i a n a n d tr a v e l l i n g c o m p a n i o n fo r s o m e 2 1y e a r s . I' m g o i n g to g o a r o u n d th e ta b l e a g a i n a n d g o to th ete l e p h o n e l i n e s . We w i l l r e a l l y j u s t tr y to e x p l o r e a m a n ' sp h i l o s o p h y . I th i n k i f w e ' v e l e a r n e d a n y th i n g i n th e c o u r s e o f th e s e

b r i e f fe w m o m e n ts w i th o u r g u e s t w e h a v e l e a r n e d th a t h es p e a k s to th e n a tu r e o f m a n . M a n ' s u n i v e r s a l i ty o r th e c o n n e c ti o nth a t m a n h a s w i th h i s to ta l u n i v e r s e . Th e m a n n e r i n w h i c h i n h i so w n l i fe h e h a s b e e n a b l e to c l e a n s e h i m s e l f o f c e r ta i n i m p u r i ti e so f m i n d a n d s p i r i t a n d h i m s e l f a n d s o u l . A n d h o w e s c a p i n g th es e l fi s h n e s s o f o th e r s w h o m a y w i s h to p u t h i m to o th e r th a n g o o du s e h e c a n e s c a p e th i s l i fe i n b e tte r s h a p e th a n n o t. I s u p p o s eth a t' s a b o u t th e b e s t w e ' v e b e e n a b l e to s a y s o fa r . M a r c i a , I w o u l dl i k e to i n q u i r e , b e fo r e w e g o th e p h o n e s a n d c o m e b a c k to o u r


16/38

g u e s ts , h o w y o u h a v e ta k e n i n th a t s p e e c h th a t y o u h e a r d . Y o ua r e a n A m e r i c a n y o u n g w o m a n a n d y o u m u s t h a v e h a d o th e r r e l i g i o u s b e l i e fs . Y o u m u s t h a v e b e e n s e a r c h i n g fo r s o m e k i n d o f s p i r i tu a l i ty y o u r s e l f. Wh y , w h a t th i s m a n s a i d to y o u h a s c a p tu r e d

y o u r m i n d a n d y o u r s o u l ? It' s i n te r e s ti n g fo r m e to i n q u i r e . I w o u l dlike to know why.

Marcia Miller: - W h y? I d on ' t kn o w h o w t o e xp l ai n t he t r ut h . Bu t ,w h e n y o u h ea r i tw h e n a n i n di v i du a l h e a rs w h a t tr u th is fo r h i m y o u k n ow i t. I fe l t th at e v e r yth i n g he s a i d m ad e c o mp l e tesense to me. I felt it in my heart. The words that he spoke and thethings he represent just sounded like TRUTH.

John Eastman: - Has it caused you to make any changes in your life as a person? What absolute physical changes have you madew i th y o u r p r ac ti c al l i fe ?

Marcia Miller: - Physical. I don't know. Spiritually I feel at peace withmyself now, I understand. I was raised as a Methodist and myhusband is congregational. We were married in the congregational

church. But, I had a searching for what religion stood for. There'sone religion here, and another here and one would say, Our way isthe way and the only way. And there is another that would say thesame thing. I wanted to know what it is all about. What the religion isall about? What the religion itself stood for. And this man helped met o un de rs ta nd t ha t an d n ow I f ee l p ea ce . It 's a ll o ne . It 's t he s am eGod we're worshipping and it's simpleit really is.

John Eastman: - It has improved your life because it has brought itdown to rather simple terms with which you can deal.

Marcia Miller: - And I have peace.

John Eastman: - Would you move your microphone to Dr. Ram. Iwould like to inquire of him something. Dr. as a scientist, as aphysician you probablyI had a guest the other morning on mytelevision show. He is a named Dr. John Ott. He is man who believes


17/38

and was able to set forth with a form of rather convincing proofof the inner mechanics of the human body, which shows the flow of energy from throughout the body, in a correct way and an incorrectway. He was able to show with a young man that has absolutely

sterling credentials for honesty, an athlete in our community. Byinfluence of an incorrect kind, the physical strength can in fact, beaffected. And, that one's weaknesses can be improved andstrengths can be enhanced. And you can do this in the simplestmanner. Now, something of what Dr. Ott was doing, although hewas doing it from the stand point of (if you will) the AmericanScientific Community, is involved in what you are nowor what our guest tonight is talking about. And what Dr. Ott was talking about is

one and the same. Because, that's what, came clear to me. Thatmany of the things that we practice (wholeistic medicine in our scientific community) had to do with strength and purpose and self a n d h ea l th. It h a s to d o w ith th e s pi r i tua l s i d e of m a n a n d theopenness and the flowing nature that is already there. Which iswhat? I'm getting at. Am I right about it all?

Dr. Ram: - Yes, I agree. I would like to throw some light on this

subject. I am practising homeopathy for the last 28 years. I havebeen giving medicines to the patients suffering from differentdiseases. But when I went to His Holiness, he embraced me ands a i d to m e, Wh om s o ev e r, y o u w i l l g i v e m e d ic i n e h e s ha l l b e a llr ig ht . T he re af te r t he y h av e b ee n a ll r ig ht as a nd wh en Iadministered my medicine to any patient. No disease remains withthem as soon as they take my medicine. It is all due to the fact thatHis Holiness embraced me.

S e c o n d l y , th e r e w a s a q u a r r e l b e tw e e n m y s e l f a n d m yw i fe . I w a s a p o o r m a n . I d i d n o t k n o w th e l a w o f h u m a n i ty a n d th ea r t o f l i v i n g . I w a s v e r y i g n o r a n t. I c o n s i d e r H i s H o l i n e s s a s ap e r fe c t m a n , p e r fe c t m e a n s , h a v i n g p h y s i c a l , m e n ta l a n d s p i r i tu a lp o w e r s w i th i n h i m o n e q u a l b a s i s . In o th e r w o r d s , p h y s i c a l l y ,m e n ta l l y a n d s p i r i tu a l l y h e i s p e r fe c t. A n d b e y o n d s p i r i t w h a tr e m a i n s . H e i s th e e m b o d i m e n t o f th a t. S o w h e n I w e n t to h i m , h ee m b r a c e m e a n d a d v i s e d m e n o t to q u a r r e l w i th m y w i fe


18/38

o th e r w i s e , m y p o v e r ty s h a l l n o t c o m e to a n e n d . H e a d v i s e d m en o t to q u a r r e l a n d s a i d h o m e p e a c e i s m o s t e s s e n ti a l fo r e v e r y b o d y . Wh e n a p a ti e n t c o m e s to a d o c to r , i t i s th e d u ty o f th ed o c to r to s e e th a t fr o m w h i c h d i s e a s e th e p a ti e n t i s s u ffe r i n g a n d

a c co r di n gl y h e p re s cr i be s t h e me d ic i ne . A d o ct o r n ev e r p r e s c r i b e s th e s a m e m e d i c i n e to a l l o f h i s p a ti e n ts . Is i t n o t?S i m i l a r l y a p e r fe c t m a n , j u d g e s th e n a tu r e a n d q u a l i ti e s o f a m a nth r o u g h h i s i n n e r v i s i o n w h i c h i s o n l y w i th h i m . I d o n o t s a y th a to th e r s d o n o t h a v e th a t i n n e r v i s i o n . B u t I h a v e p e r fe c t fa i th i n h i m .I c o n s i d e r H i m p e r fe c t Go d i n h u m a n fo r m . A s y o u h a v e s a i d th a ti f a p h y s i c a l l y s tr o n g m a n i n s tr u c ts a p h y s i c a l l y w e a k m a n a n d th ew e a k m a n b y fo l l o w i n g th e i n s tr u c ti o n s o f th e s tr o n g m a n c a n a l s o

g a i n p h y s i c a l s tr e n g th . S o s i m i l a r l y , i f a m a n i s m e n ta l l y w e a k a n dh e i s i m p a r te d i n s tr u c ti o n b y a m e n ta l l y s tr o n g m a n h e c a n to ob e c o m e m e n ta l l y s tr o n g . On th e s a m e l i n e s a s p i r i tu a l l y s tr o n gm a n c a n h e l p a s p i r i tu a l l y w e a k m a n . B u t w h a t i s s p i r i tu a l .S p i r i tu a l m e a n s L i g h t a n d S o u n d w i th i n . Wh e r e th e r e i s o n l y l i g h ta n d s o u n d w i th i n , o n l y th a t i s th e s p i r i tu a l r e g i o n .

J e s u s C h r i s t h a s v e r y c l e a r l y w r i tte n i n th e b i b l e th a t m a n i s

th e to p o f c r e a ti o n , a s fa r a s I h a v e r e a d . H e s a y s th a t m a n i s th eto p o f c r e a ti o n . Th e r e i s e v e r y p o w e r w i th i n a m a n . H e c a n d om i r a c l e s , a s I h a v e s e e n m a n y i n m y l i fe , w h i c h h a v e b e e n d o n eb y H i s H o l i n e s s . Wi th m e , h e a l w a y s s tr e s s e s u p o n h o m e - p e a c e .Y o u c a n n o t p l e a s e th e w h o l e w o r l d , th e p r o v i n c e s o r th ec o u n tr i e s . Fi r s t p l e a s e y o u r o w n i n m a te s , w h o a r e a r o u n d y o u . If y o u c a n n o t p l e a s e tw o o r th r e e p e r s o n s a r o u n d y o u , h o w c a n y o up l e a s e s o m a n y p e o p l e ? S o fi r s t p l e a s e a n d l o v e y o u r o w n k i th

a n d k i n s . Go d h a s g i v e n y o u th e c h a n c e to l o v e th o s e , w h o a r ea r o u n d y o u a n d w i th y o u . H e r e s o m a n y s a i n ts h a v e c o m e top r e a c h a n d th e y p r o c l a i m to d o th i s o r th a t. B u t th e i r p r a c ti c a l l i fe , Ih a v e s o fa r s e e n w a s n o t p r a c ti c a l . H a d th e y b e e n p r a c ti c a l a n dtr u e to th e m s e l v e s , th e r e w o u l d h a v e b e e n p e a c e i n th e w h o l ew o r l d . In th e c o m p a n y o f H i s H o l i n e s s a n d b y fo l l o w i n g H i sIn s tr u c ti o n s I h a v e b e c o m e h e a l th y , w e a l th y a n d p e a c e fu l . H e d i dn o t i n i ti a te m e i n th e tr a d i ti o n a l w a y . U n ti l a n d u n l e s s , y o u r b e l l y i sn o t fi l l e d , h o w c a n y o u c o n c e n tr a te o r m e d i ta te a n d s e e k fo r th a t


19/38

s u b l i m e s ta te o f L i g h t a n d S o u n d . Th i s i s n o t m e a n t fo r e v e r y b o d y .On l y l i m i te d s h o u l d c o m e fr o m th a t s u b l i m e a n d u n - n a m e d s ta teto i m p a r t th e tr u e k n o w l e d g e to th o s e w h o s e e k fo r i t.

John Eastman: - Your Holiness just a few more moments, if I couldhave your time and your ear. He used the phraseThe art of livingHow one should live?

H is H oline s s : - Y e s , y o u s e e a d r e a m . In d r e a m y o u fe e l a n g r ya n d y o u h i t s o m e b o d y , y o u r h a n d i s m o v e d . Y o u a r e fr i g h te n e d i ny o u r d r e a m , y o u r to n g u e i s m o v e d . I d o n o t k n o w a b o u t l a d i e s ,m a n c r e a te s i m a g i n a r y w o m a n i n h i s d r e a m a n d e n j o y s s e x w i th

h e r , h i s s e m e n c o m e s o u t. Th e th o u g h ts o f d r e a m a r e n o t i n th ec o n tr o l o f a m a n . If y o u w i s h o r I w i s h to s e e a p a r ti c u l a r d r e a m , w ec a n n o t. B u t th e th o u g h t o f d r e a m th a t i s n o t i n o u r c o n tr o l h a s i tse ffe c t u p o n o u r b o d y . Is i t n o t? In th e s i m i l a r w a y i f th e th o u g h ts o f o u r s u b c o n s c i o u s m i n d h a v e th e i r e ffe c t u p o n o u r b o d y , th e nth o u g h ts o f o u r w a k e fu l c o n d i ti o n o r th e th o u g h ts w e c h e r i s hc o n s c i o u s l y m u s t h a v e th e i r e ffe c t u p o n u s . Th e w h o l e d a y w eth i n k i l l o f o th e r s , w e fe e l j e a l o u s o f o th e r s , a n d w e c h e r i s h e n m i ty

w i th o th e r s . Th e s e th o u g h ts m u s t h a v e th e i r i m p a c t u p o n u s a n du p o n o th e r s . Th e a r t o f l i v i n g th a t I p r e a c h i s , b e a l w a y s o p ti m i s ti c ,th i n k a l w a y s g o o d fo r o th e r s a s w e l l a s fo r y o u r o w n s e l f a n d fo r y o u r fa m i l y . A l w a y s d o th i n g s w i th c o r r e c t u n d e r s ta n d i n g a n d a c ta c c o r d i n g to th e ti m e , s p a c e a n d s i tu a ti o n . On e o r d e r i s n o t fo r e v e r y b o d y . N a tu r e o f e v e r y i n d i v i d u a l i s d i ffe r e n t a n d th u s e v e r yi n d i v i d u a l n e e d s d i ffe r e n t i n s tr u c ti o n s . M y y o u n g e r b r o th e r , w h e n

thh e w a s s t u d y i n g i n 7 s t a n d a r d w e n t t o my s p i r it u a l f a t he r f o r

i n i ti a ti o n . H e i n i ti a te d h i m , b u t d i r e c te d h i m n o t to d o a n ym e d i ta ti o n . H e s a i d to m y b r o th e r , Fo r y o u , l i fe m e a n s w o r k a n dw o r k m e a n s l i fe . M y b r o th e r o b e y e d m y S p i r i tu a l Fa th e r . Wh a th a p p e n e d ? H e w a s a n o n - m a tr i c b o y . H e b e c a m e tr a ffi c m a n a g e r o f In d i a n R a i l w a y s a n d g o t th e ti tl e o f R a i S a h i b fr o m th e B r i ti s hGo v e r n m e n t. H e r e ti r e d a fte r r e c e i v i n g R s .2 5 0 0 /- p e r m o n th a sh i s p a y . In o l d a g e h e s ta r te d m e d i ta ti o n a n d tu r n e d a r e c l u s e . Fo r m e , t h e r e w a s a d i f f e r e n t o r d er, w h e r e a s f o r m y w i f e t h e r e w a s ad i ffe r e n t i n s tr u c ti o n . S h e w a s a w o m a n o f d i ffe r e n t n a tu r e a n d h a d


20/38

s e l f- r e s p e c t. S h e c o m p l a i n e d to m y S p i r i tu a l Fa th e r a b o u t m yfa m i l y q u a r r e l s . H e s a i d to h e r , If a n y b o d y ta u n ts y o u g i v e s i x te e nta u n ts i n r e p l y , e v e n i f i t m a y b e y o u r h u s b a n d . S o , th e l a w o f a c ti o n i s a c c o r d i n g to th e n a tu r e a n d s i tu a ti o n o f a m a n w h o i s

a d v i s e d . On e i n s tr u c ti o n i s n o t s u i ta b l e fo r e v e r y b o d y .

John Eastman: - What we're really saying iseach man is of himself. And, appreciate that. That is what we're saying. We're nowgoing to find out what some other people think. If you don't mind,these are callers and we will help you to understand what they aresaying. And we'll take their opinion and I thank you very much for waiting. Our guest tonight is Faqir Dayal and I'm enjoying it.

st1 Caller: - Hello John. Well, I'm a little bit; I'm out in left field a littlebit. Because (no offence) but I hardly been able to understand hiswords that your guest said.

John Eastman: - Well I've understood more than one.

st1 Caller: - Well, you're looking right at his lips while he's talking.

And I've followed everything that you've said.

John Eastman: - w e l l I' v e b e en tr y i n g to i nte r p re t a s b e s t I c a n .

st1 Caller: - Well, you've done a fantastic job. He's quite an orator,quite a speaker.

John Eastman: - Winston, I must say something to you right off the

bat in case you're repeating the opinion of others and I have tod e fen d m y s el f fo r th e id e a th at I k n o w th a t th er e i s a l a ng u a gedifficulty. But, there's a philosophic difference among men too, and Ith i nk th i s m a n h a s ph i l os o p hy th at s o me h o w w i l l tr a n sfo r m or g obeyond perhaps the words that we aren't catching quite-one-on-one.

st1 Caller: - Y e s , I w o n d e r e d i f th i s i s a r e l i g i o n th a t h e ' s ta l k i n gabout now.


21/38

John Eastman: - No, it is not a religion. It is a philosophy.

st1 caller: - What are the basics of it? Let me ask firstwhat is hisreligious background.

John Eastman: - Dr. Ram, may be you can be clearly understood inanswering the question and you can answer it for him.

Dr. Ram turned to Baba and said, What is the real religionthat you preach?

His Holiness: - I preach no religion. Yes, I preach no religion.

Religion is a method adopted by a man to attain peace of mind,health and salvation.

st1 Call er: - He's looking for something and

John Eastman: - He says he has found something.

st1 Caller: - He was looking for something and he apparently found it

somewhere. Well, I wondered what his deity is. What is your God?

His Holiness: - 'O' my God is ocean of Light and ocean of Sound.

John Eastman: - What do you base it onwhy do you say that?

H is H oline s s : - Y e s , I s a y th i s , b e c a u s e w h e n p e o p l e to l d m e th a tm y i m a g e h e l p s th e m a n d g u i d e s th e m , w h e r e a s I k n o w n o th i n g

a b o u t s u c h i n s ta n c e s . Th e n I r e a l i s e d th a t w h a te v e r I v i s u a l i s ew i th i n m e th a t to o i s n o t a r e a l i ty . Th e n I l e a v e o ff m y m e n ta lr e l i g i o n a n d g o b e y o n d m y m i n d . B e y o n d m i n d , th e r e i s l i g h t a n dS o u n d .

John Eastman: - Winston, to translate that for you; I think simplyth e m a n is s a y i ng to y o u th at h e h a s fo u nd w i th in h i m s el f th eevidence he needs to support the idea that God, (his God) is Lightand Sound.


22/38

His Holiness: - Rather beyond that there is something which I thinkother people cannot understand. Why? I say so? When I see theLight within and listen to the unbreakable sound within, I try to knowabout that object which sees the light and listens the sound. That is

beyond perception and that is the Real God.

John Eastman: - He is just saying Winston that (I understand your point of view and I understand most of our Christian view point) he'ssimply saying that he has found what his idea of his God is withinhimself. And, he substantiates it from his point of view. And that's

just as you say that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It is no different.You have a concept and he has a concept and that's all that's being

said hereis what is his concept. It is not even arguable.

st1 Caller: - One another question that I want to put to him. Ask him ishe a Christian?

John Eastman: - Are you a Christian?

His Holiness: - I am a Christian, I am a Hindu, I am Mohammadan, I

am a Jew, I am everything and I am nothing. It is all your mentalthinking. Beyond mind, you cease to be any one.

st1 Caller: - He cant be everything.

John Eastman: - Well, you see Winston; he is saying that he is. Asyou are saying that he cannot be.

st

1 Caller: - He is either a Christian or he is not a Christian.

John Eastman: - He says he is Christian. He is also a Jew. He isalso a Mohammadan. He is also etc.

st1 Caller: - We ll h e c a n' t b e a J e w a n d a C hr i s tia n to o .

John Eastman: - But he says so. You see that's why it is so mindboggleing.


23/38

st1 Cal ler: - I'm confused.

John Eastman: - You can end your confusion immediately, if youw il l s ay th at ; t hi s m an 's co nv ic ti on is as s tr on gl y h el d a s y ou rs .

Therefore, there is nothing to be confused about. You believe acertain thing and he believes something elsejust as unequivableas you do.

st1 Call er: - Well, I was just thinking about the base of his foundationof his beliefs.

John Eastman: - The foundation is that within himself he has found

evidence to support his idea of God.

st1 Cal ler: - I won't belabour the point. I have found mine. Because Iam a Christian believing that Jesus ChristSon of God had died onthe cross to save me from all my sins.

John Eastman: - Yes, I understand and so did i. but, what we'redoing here is simply just stating that there are people in the world.

And the population of the world is really quite larger than thepopulation of perhaps our little area. And, that there are people whofeel differently. And it's the responsibility of people like myself tobring you all the views. This is just one.

st1 Caller: - I think it's fair to say, I've studied religions you know. But,th i s i s a b r a nd n ew o n e . It i s a p hi l o so p h y o f l ife . He ' s n o t e v e nbasing it on religion.

John Eastman: - He's not even offending Christianity either if youtake it in the way he means it.

st1 Caller: - Well, O.K. I've really enjoyed listening.

John Eastman: - I'm doing the best I can and if someone isoffended by the fact that they did not understand then they shouldgo wherever they can.


24/38

John Eastman: - It's 11:27. Hello.

nd2 Caller: - Hi, Boy I am confused.

John Eastman: - Yes, of course you would be.

nd2 Caller: - Yes, well, you know he's on the right track. I think.

John Eastman: - I t w ou ld b e i nt er es ti ng t o h av e y ou e xp ou nd u po n i t.

nd2 Caller: - Did you say he's Jewish.

John Eastman: - No, he's not Jewish. He's an Indian Gentleman.

nd2 Caller: - But, didn't he claim to be Jewish?

John Eastman: - And Mohammaden and Christian and all the rest.H e s ay s th at h e h as a fa ith th at e m bo d i es a l l o f th e r e l ig i o ns . H edistinguishes between religions and spirituality.

nd

2 Caller: - It has always been the possession of England, hasn't it?India?

John Eastman: - Politically for a great time it was ruled as part of the British Empire, but, now it is India.

nd2 Caller: - I think England has always been ruled by Jewish I think.

John Eastman: - B ut , n ow t he o nl y p oin t t ha t y ou a re g oi ng t o g et wi thit is that this man dismisses it. see, ordinarily if he were not in our present s, you and I could discuss whether or not the Jews ar e bett er t ha n t he C hr is ti an s o r t he I ri sh b et te r t ha n a ny bo dy. B ut , h e m ak es t ha targument irrelevant.

nd2 Caller: - N o J o h n, w h a t I w a nt to s a y i s th a t, i n E ng l a nd m y fa th er w a s b o rn a n d th a t w a s a l o ng ti m e a g o . A n d I w a s b o r n h er e i nAmerica. And what happened to me here in America happened to


25/38

my father in England, a long time ago. And when I was in elementarys c h oo l , i n e ve r y g r ad e i n s c ho o l w e w e re a s k e d by th e te a c he r s ( a tschool) to ask our parents for non-perishable food, along with anymoney we couldto send to the starving people of India and that's

still going on today. Now, he calls himself a holy man, doesn't he?

John Eastman: - Now, wait now, something before youbecauseyou're not privileged to this information; the gentleman here has 3hospitals that charges no money and delivers food to people.

nd2 Caller: - John, I'm not saying what this gentleman is. I'm sayingabout India itself.

John Eastman: - No, that is not the point. He misunderstood you;he thought you were talking about money-raising. And, that is notwhat he's up to. See, the conversation can't be helped, unlessyou're willing to understand the broadness of his Philosophy. Youand I will have other evenings on which to discuss the nature of your belief.

nd

2 Caller: - B u t, J o hn I t h i nk I k n ow t h e fa i th t h at t h is f e ll o w h a smade. And like I said when I first got onI think he's on the righttrack. In other wordsthe Holy men of India, and all the wit the holym e n a re s u p po s e d to po s s es s wh y ( I a sk ) w h y for a l l th e s ehundreds and hundreds of years have the people of India beenstarving.

John Eastman: - OK. Good question. Let me put it to him.

nd2 Caller: - Well, wait a minute and

J o h n E a s t m a n : - i f y o u a r e s o s m a r t h o w c o m e y o u ' r eh u n g r y ? A n A m e r i c a n , a n d v e r y t y p i c a l , a n d I s a i d i t t o o w e l l ,l e t u s a s k h i m . Y o u l i s t e n I h a v e g o t a n e w s u p d a t e a n d ab u n c h o f p e o p l e w a i t i n g a n d l e t ' s g e t t o t h a t a n s w e r . I h a v e g o tt o g o t o h o l d o n w e w i l l a n s w e r t h a t q u e s t i o n . N o w , t h eq u e s t i o n i s i t i s a v e r y s i m p l i s t i c q u e s t i o n . I f t h e h o l y i d e a


26/38

t h a t y o u e x p r e s s i s a n I n d i a n p h i l o s o p h y e x p r e s s e d b y n o to n l y y o u , b u t b y m a n y o t h e r h o l y m e n o f I n d i a . W h y h a v e t h e r eb e e n t h o u s a n d s m i l l i o n s o f p e o p l e i n I n d i a f o r c e d t os t a r v a t i o n ? W h y i s y o u r n a t i o n t h o u g h t o f a s a n a t i o n o f

h u n g r y p e o p l e ? I s t h e p h i l o s o p h y t h a t y o u e x p r e s s w o u l db r i n g t h e m t o f o o d , h a p p i n e s s a n d p e a c e ?

His Holiness: - My brother, I do not proclaim that whatever I haverealised is correct. Nor do I proclaim that whatever I have realised inmy life is final. No one has the right to say that whatever he hasrealised is final. God, Nature or the Supreme Power is so big that noone has the power to say anything about it. Those who say and

explain that supreme power, they are not men. They are egotists.None can know that supreme power and explain it.

This world is of trinity and duality. There cannot be two thingsequal and similar. Now, what have I attained at this age of 92 years?I h av e g ot pe ac e. I h av e n o wo rr y. A nd t her e i s n ot hin g t o wo rr y. M anhimself makes his ideal of his worship, as an ideal of Rama, Krishna,Christ and Mohammad. He worships it, prays to it and bows to it and

g et s b en ef it ed a cc or di ng t o h is f ai th a nd b el ie f. I a cc or di ng t o m y f ai th ,t ho ug ht m y s pi ri tu al f at he r a s a n i nc ar na ti on o f t he a lm ig ht y. A nd I , o utof devotion followed by his word and obeyed him to the best of mya bi li ty an d I h av e g ai ne d w ha t I wa nt ed . I d o no t s ay t ha t w hat ev er I s ayi s f ina l. Bu t I ex pe ri en ce s o f m y l if e i .e . p hy si cal , m en ta l a nd s pi ri tua l.As you think, so shall you be. As you sow, so shall you reap? If man ispoor, who is responsible f or it? Eit her he is poor due to his own karmao r i t i s t h e w i l l o f G o d .

John Eastman: - S o , y ou w i ll s a y tha t th e m a n in In di a w ho i sstarving is starving, because of himself.

His Holiness: - Yes, man is subject to some power. He may beC h r is t, h e m a y b e R am a , h e m ay b e K r i s hn a o r h e m a y b e a n yp r o ph e t. E v er y o ne w h o c o m es to th i s w o r ld i n P h y s ic a l fo r m i sunder the law of that supreme power. I believe in that big power. Butw h e n I a m i n m y w a ke fu l c o n di ti o n, I fo l l o w th e p r in c i pl e o f v i r tuo u s


27/38

thought. That is be good and do good; be always optimistic and donot be negative.

John Eastman: - S o s om e o f y ou r f el lo w I nd ia ns a re no t a s

fortunate as you are

H i s H o l i n e s s : - I d o n o t k n o w n o r d o I k n o w w h a t o t h e r s a g e ss a y . N o r d o I s t u d y a n y p h i l o s o p h y . I a m t e l l i n g y o u v e r y f r a n k l yt h e o b s e r v a t i o n s a n d e x p e r i e n c e s o f m y o w n l i f e . T h i s w o r l d i sn o t m y p e r m a n e n t h o m e . W e h a v e c o m e h e r e f r o m s o m e w h e r ea n d w e a r e t o g o t h e r e . W e a r e t h i n k i n g t h a t w e a r e A m e r i c a n s ;o t h e r s t h i n k t h a t t h e y a r e I n d i a n s . S o m e t h i n k t h a t t h e y a r e

C h r i s t i a n s a n d o t h e r t h i n k t h a t t h e y a r e J e w s . W h a t i s t h i s ? I t i sa m e r e i g n o r a n c e . W e a r e i n t h i s w o r l d f o r a v e r y l i m i t e d p e r i o d .S o m e a r e h e r e f o r 5 0 y e a r s , s o m e a r e h e r e f o r 6 0 y e a r s a n ds o m e a r e h e r e f o r 8 0 y e a r s . W e a r e d o m i n a t e d b y o u r e g o . D u et o t h i s e g o i s m w e c o n s i d e r o u r s e l v e s a s A m e r i c a n s o r I n d i a n s ,S i k h s o r H i n d u s , C h r i s t i a n o r J e w s . T h i s i s a l l e g o i s m . T h i s i sc a l l e d M a y a ( i l l u s i o n ) i n o u r I n d i a n P h i l o s o p h y . T h i s e g o i s m h a sc r e a t e d n a t i o n s a n d t r o u b l e s f o r t h e m a n k i n d .

John Eastman: - w e m us t ta ke a b r ea k n ow. We wi l l c o m e b a c k toyou on the telephonesyou are waiting. And I hope we will have apleasant half hour. We will be right back.

I t i s 1 1 : 3 9 a n d i f y o u h a v e j o i n e d u s a n d d o n o t k n o w w h a tw e ' r e u p t o I t i s a n i n t e r e s t i n g e v e n i n g a n d p r o b a b l y a d i f f i c u l to n e f o r s o m e o f y o u . W e a r e r e a l l y i n t h e p r e s e n c e o f a

g e n t l e m a n w h o i s 9 2 y e a r s o l d . H e i s a h o l y m a n a n d a l e a d e r . As p i r i t u a l l e a d e r i f y o u w i l l , f r o m t h e c o u n t r y o f I n d i a . H i s n a m e i sF a q i r D a y a l . A n d w e h a v e b e e n a l l o w i n g h i m t o e x p r e s s h i sp h i l o s o p h i e s o f l i f e w h i c h a r e f o r e i g n t o m a n y o f o u r e a r s , I ' ms u r e . W i t h h i m i s a D r . R a m , h i s p h y s i c i a n w h o h a sa c c o m p a n i e d h i m a n d b e e n h i m a s c o m p a n i o n f o r 2 1 y e a r s .T h e y a r e i n o u r s t u d i o t o n i g h t . W i t h t h a n k s t o a w o m a n n a m e dM a r c i a M i l l e r a n d h e r h u s b a n d , w h o h a v e b r o u g h t t h i sg e n t l e m a n t o t h e c i t y . W h o a r e A m e r i c a n p e o p l e , r e l i g i o u s


28/38

p e o p l e a n d w h o t h o u g h t t h a t t h i s p h i l o s o p h y w o u l d s o m e t h i n gt h a t p e r h a p s y o u w o u l d e n j o y s h a r i n g ? W i t h t h a t i n m i n d w e ' l lg e t b a c k t o o u r t e l e p h o n e l i n e s a n d a t t e m p t t o g e t o v e r t h ed i f f i c u l t y o f l a n g u a g e s t o u n d e r s t a n d t h a t w e a r e m e n a n d

w o m e n a n d p e o p l e w h o c a n t a l k .

r d3 C a l le r : - H e l l o J o h n , m a y I s h o u l d s ta r t o ff b y s a y i n g th a tm a y b e I s h o u l d n o t h a v e c a l l e d to n i g h t b e c a u s e th i s s o u n d s l i k ep r e tty h e a v y s tu ff to m e . I' m n o t th a t a r ti c u l a te r e a l l y , b u t, I d o h a v ea fe w q u e s ti o n s . Y o u r g u e s t d i d s a y , d i d n o t h i m , th a t h e h a sd e v e l o p e d h i m s e l f i n to a p e r fe c t m a n . D i d n o t h e ? I m e a n p e a c e o f m i n d , e tc . a n d a l l th a t.

John Eastman: - Well, let's see if perfect man is what he would sayof himself. Would you say that you are a perfect man?

H i s H o l i n e s s : - ' O ' N o , p e r f e c t m a n i s o n l y o n e ; p e r f e c t m a n i sn o t h e , w h o i s i n t h i s w o r l d . T h a t p e r f e c t m a n i s t h e c r e a t o r o f t h i s w o r l d . W e c a l l h i m N i r a n j a n . B y m a k i n g H i m a s o u r I d e a l w et r y t o b e c o m e p e r f e c t . W h e n a m a n b e c o m e s p e r f e c t , t h e s i g n o f

h i s p e r f e c t n e s s i s s e e n i n t h i s f a c t , t h a t w h e n h e m e d i t a t e s o nt h i s i d e a l , h i s d e s i r e , h i s o w n p e r s o n a l d e s i r e s t a n d s f u l f i l l e d .B u t i f h e m e d i t a t e s f o r t h e f u l f i l m e n t o f a d e s i r e o f h i s s o n o r o f a n y b o d y e l s e , w h o d o e s n o t h a v e a n y d e s i r e , t h e n i t w i l l n o t b eu s e f u l .

John Eastman: - ( to Caller).

Did you understand what he said?r d

3 Caller: - No, not entirely. What he's saying that only a person whocan duplicate the image of God?

J ohn E a s t m a n: - N o , to m e d i ta te , h e u s e s th e w o r d m e d i ta te .Wh a t h e ' s s i m p l y s a y i n g to y o u a n d I r e m e m b e r th i s i s a sfo r e i g n to m e a s i t i s to y o u . S o , l e t' s j u s t s a y th a t I th i n k w h a t th eg e n tl e m a n i s tr y i n g to c o n v i n c e u s o f i s th a t i f w e w i l l m e d i ta te o n


29/38

o u r i d e a s o f p e r fe c ti o n , o r th e m a n o f p e r fe c ti o n w h o i s Go d ,th a t, th a t w i l l th e n b r i n g u s p e r fe c ti o n , o r a d e g r e e o f p e r fe c ti o n .

r d3 Caller: - Another questionfrom the testament there from the

D o c tor th e r e . A w h i le a g o h e s e e me d to i m p ly th a t y o u h av e s o r t o f reached that plateau when he became healthy, wealthy and wise. Isthat how you know you are getting high or reaching your mark?

Dr. Ram: - Ye s , I am p r a cti c a ll y fe el i n g a l l th a t ha s b e e n s a i d by H i sHoliness. It is not only practically. It is due to my practicalexperiences that I am feeling physically, mentally and spiritually wellsecure and well off since I am in His Company.

John Eastman: - Do you understand? (To the Caller) He is usingth e w or d p r ac ti c al l y i n a p r a cti c a l s e n se , n o t a sp i r itu a l s e n se n o tsomething esoteric, but practical.

Dr. Ram: - M o r e s o, I w a n t to b e a m an fi r s t. P r e v io u s ly I u s e d tom e d ita te a nd c o n c en tr a te to fi n d o u t w ha t th e r e a l Go d i s . B ut n o w Ihave understood that until and unless, man does not become a Man

in the real senses he cannot attain the spirituality.

r d3 Caller: - OK. Well the only thing I've got to say is that for a minuteI thought he jeopardized my favourite alibiNobody's perfect.

John Eastman: - Ha-Ha well, I think they both agree to that. Thankyou very much, bye-bye. 11:40. Hello.

th

4 Caller (Woman):- H i J oh n, I w an t t o k no w i s t hi s t he s pi ri tu almanYou've talked about, that your friends have brought over here?

John Eastman: - It i s h e. M y fr i en d i s s im p l y a p e r so n w ho h a sl i s ten e d to thi s s h o w a n d h as s u g g es te d thi s m a n a s a g u e st.

th4 Caller: - N o , y o u s a i d s o m e t h i n g a b o u t a f r i e n d h a d b r o u g h t aG u r u o r


30/38

John Eastman: - No, No, that's another man.

th4 Caller: - That's another man, OK alright. Well, I, this man havesaid he led something. I would like to know who he leads. He said I

don't know how he put it, but he said he led somebody.

John Eastman: - Alright, well let's just ask him.

th4 Caller: - I've got another question after that.

John Eastman: - What is the second one?

th4 Caller: - Alright, I want to know if he knows anything about SikhDharma.

John Eastman: - Alright, you are being asked a very simplequestionwho are your followers?

His Holiness: - I have made no disciples. People have their ownfaith and they are benefitted accordingly. I have not become Guru of

anybody. I do not initiate any one, nor do I make any one myfollowers, people become my followers themselves.

John Eastman: - He has made no disciples. Baba speaks thatpeople become followers of themselves. He is not a guru; he doesnot attract people and keep them under his leadership.

th4 Caller: - Yes, but does he understand anything about the Sikh?

John Eastman: - Do you know Sikh Dharma?

Dr. Ram: - Y e s , S i k h m e a n s a fo l l o w e r o r d i s c i p l e . S i k h i s m i s ar e l i g i o n fo u n d e d b y Gu r u N a n a k D e v J i . Gu r u N a n a k D e v J i w a sth e fi r s t Gu r u o f th e S i k h s . H e h a d h i s fo l l o w e r s i n P u n j a b S ta te .We to o a r e c o m i n g fr o m P u n j a b S ta te e s p e c i a l l y fr o m d i s tr i c tH o s h i a r p u r .


31/38

th4 Caller: - Yes, it is in the United States too. Yes, well what do youthink about the Sikh Dharma?

Dr. Ram: - Th e p h il o s op h y o f Gu r u Na n a k i s th e s a me , w h i ch i s

being expressed by His Holiness at present. During the life time of Guru Nanak, those who followed the doctrines of his philosophy,they were benefitted. I believe that a living man can guide themankind in a better way than the dead one. I have firm faith that aman can attain anything from a living soul or guide and not from thedead one. This is my firm belief.

B e i ng a d o c to r, I te l l y o u o ne th i n g. Th e re w a s a d o c to r

n a me d Dr. B e li R a m in L a ho r e. H e w as a v e ry f a mo us d oc t or. H eused to give prescription to thousands of patients and they used tobe benefitted from him. Now he is no more in this world. Now, if anybody would like to get the same prescription of Dr. Beli Ram,h o w c a n h e ge t i t? Th i s i s my q u e sti o n . No w m y a n sw e r to thi s i s th a tnow a patient shall have to approach some living doctor who knowsthe art of diagnosing a disease and the cure for it. Until and unless apatient goes to a doctor, no curing can be possible. The late Dr. Beli

R a m c a n no t he l p th e p a tie n t a n y wa y. Th i s i s m y p r e su m p tio n a n dfirm belief.

th4 Caller: - S o , y o u fee l th a t a ny o n e wh o i s p r ac ti s in g th e S ik hreligion in the United States now is not really doing a good service?

Dr. Ram: - No, No, that is not the thing. My contention is that wemust follow the instructions of a living man. Men of the past whom

we worship today, they have separated us from each other. Their teachings were for their own times. Now, the time has changed.Someone is following one guru and the other one is following theother. They do not see eye to eye. They feel jealous of each other.The dominating factor is faith and not the Guru. If different followersof different guru stick to their faiths sincerely, then there would be noduality, no enmity and no quarrel. But unfortunately we have beendivided in the name of God and religion. This division of mankindhas led to the creation of nations and countries, fighting against


32/38

each other. Someone says that his God or Guru is great and other one claims that his God or Guru is great which leads to communalf i gh t s an d w ar s . Th ey a r e al l i gn o ra n t. W e a re a l l t h e so ns a n ddaughters of that supreme power and we are all human being. We

should live peacefully and let others live peacefully.

th4 Caller: - Yes, but that's great. But have you ever heard of SilihSingh Sabh (I do not know the spelling) who is the leader of the Sikhreligion in this country? And what

John Eastman: - Isn't the question you're askingare there other Gurus or Maharishies?

th4 Caller: - No. What I'm really asking isWho is he? And ishehas he got an organisation or

John Eastman: - Th e g en tl em a n w ho ' s h e r e? Or th e g e ntl e m anyou are speaking of?

th4 Caller: - I d o n o t k n o w w h o I w a s ta lk i n g to. Wa s I ta l k i ng to th e 9 2

years old?

John Eastman: - No, you were not. You were talking to hisphysician.

th4 Caller: - What I want to know is why he is here and who promotedhim, really.

John Eastman: - She's asking you why you're here and who ispromoting you and what so you have to gain in being here?

Dr. Ram: - Yes, I have gained everything. As I have alreadyexplained. I am a homeopathic doctor and I have my practice at mynative place. My practice is going up day by day and I have no worryat all.

th4 Caller: - Are you 92 years old?


33/38

John Eastman: - I' l l a s k h i m a nd h e c a n e x pl a i n. Al r i gh t, l e t m e tr y toclarify it.

th4 Caller: - It's really confusing.

John Eastman: - Behind what you're saying iswho is he tosaywho he is?

th4 Caller: - Yes, right I think that

John Eastman: - You are challenging him.th

4 Caller: - What I'm saying is it sounds to me from what I've.

John Eastman: - That there's a hype in it.

th4 Caller: - Th a t h e i s a tr u th fu l p e r so n . H e 's o n e p e r so n , w h o i spromoting his own personal whatever.

John Eastman: - Philosophy.

th

4 Caller: - Philosophy, right.

John Eastman: - To the detriment of others? Or to

th4 Caller: - Not necessarily.

John Eastman: - To the information of others?

th

4 Caller: - Well, its information to me, but I want to know where hec o m es fr o m . Ce r ta in l y, w h o i s h e? Wh a t i s h e ? Is he a Gu r u ? Is h ewhat?

John Eastman: - S o m eo n e i s a s k in g a v e r y p r a cti c a l q u e sti o n o f you. Alright, who are you? Where did you come from? Why are youhere? (To the Caller) Is that right?

th4 Caller: - Were you grown up as a Hindu and where?


34/38

John Eastman: - Were you grown up as a Hindu and who are you?Why are you here? And, what are you up to?

His Holiness: - I was born as a Hindu. But now I am neither Hindu

nor Muslim nor Sikh nor anybody (CallerWhy?). Because I haverealised; who am I?

I am a bubble of super most consciousness.

That is what I have realised. Why I say so? Because thosew h o h a ve fa i th i n m e a nd c o n s id e r m e a s th e ir g u r u , m y i ma g e( a s tra l fo r m ) h e l ps th e m a n d gu i d es th e m, w h il e I d o n o t g o

anywhere to help anybody then what is the reality? Who helps themin my form? It is their own mind. Such incidents made me to realise,th a t w h ate v e r I h a vi n g s e en o r v i s u al i z in g th a t i s fo r ms o f L o r dKrishna, Rama or Guru. They too were not a reality but the creationof my own mind. Then I left my mind to go beyond its circle. Beyondthe mental region I realised what am I? I am a bubble of super mostconsciousness.

th

4 Caller: - Why? I really want to know who brought him here.

John Eastman: - A l r i gh t, OK , y o u me a n th e h ar d fi n an c i al fa c ts.Alright hold onlet's take it to the end of the table. Marcia, you aregoing to have to answer this because it was you who brought himhere. So, who brought you here or did you bring him here? She's notasking a hard question, it's just a different one.

Marcia Miller: - We w er e o ne of t he t hr ee p eop le t ha t s po ns or ed h imo ve r he re t o A me ri ca. T her e' s a Do ct or i n P hil ad el ph ia Dr. R ao a ndDr. Sharma, a doctor of Philosophy at the University of Washington.The three of us wished that he would come over here t o America, andp ai d for h is p as sa ge .

th4 Caller: - For what reason?

Marcia Miller: - We like him.


35/38

th4 Caller: - You can't even understand him.Marcia Miller: - I can understand him very well. We love him and wewanted to see him and we are enjoying being with him.

John Eastman: - I mean that is such a simple answer. See, you'redoing what I would normally do. Which iswho's passing the plate?Right?

th4 Caller: - Right, and I'm tearing my hair and I still don't

John Eastman: - Well, let's get an answer. Who is passing

theMarcia is anyone passing any plates?

Marcia Miller: - No, nobody's passing any plates. We've simplybrought him over here. Between the three of us we financed his tripover here and he's not asking money from anyAmerican.

th4 Caller: - And so, where, what is he doing while he's here?

Marcia Miller: - He's staying at our home and we're enjoying him.

th4 Caller: - Alright, but, you know, alright, besides being on the JohnEastman's show, what else is he doing?

Marcia Miller: - Well, we had meeting at our home with a fewp e r so n a l fr i e nd s M on d a y n i g ht. H e wa s o n c h a nn e l 1 0 thi s m o r ni n gon a talk show. He'll be again at the Temple of the Living God, Friday

nd

n i g ht a t 1 9 5 0, 2 A v e. N . i n St. P e te r s bu r g .

John Eastman: - No donations?

Marcia Miller: - No.

John Eastman: - That's what you wanted to know. Isn't it?

th4 Caller: - Yes.


36/38

John Eastman: - Cause you were looking for the hype in it.

th4 Caller: - YesI guess it's so

J ohn E a s t m a n: - L e t' s y o u a n d I d e a l fo r a m o m e n t. L e t' s a s s u m eth a t I r a n i n to y o u a n d I h a d fa i th i n y o u a n d I b r o u g h t y o u o v e r h e r eto i n tr o d u c e y o u to a g r o u p o f p e o p l e th a t I th o u g h t y o u c o u l d b eh e l p fu l to a n d w e d i d n ' t c h a r g e a n y th i n g . Th a t j u s t d o e s n ' t m a k ea n y s e n s e to y o u . D o e s i t?

th4 Caller: - Well, it

John Eastman: - Would you believe it?

th4 Caller: - I' l l te l l y o u s o me th in g U.S . o f A . I d o n ' t

John Eastman: - You believe that religion has to make money.

th4 Caller: - Huh? Well, I'm not a religious. And usually that is thecase. And, certainly, if it is an Indian who is coming here. Yes.

John Eastman: - Yes, OK. I appreciate what you've said.

th4 Caller: - Do you really feel the same way?

John Eastman: - No.

th4 Caller: - Ha, I don't believe it.

John Eastman: - I don't.

th4 Caller: - OK , We l l , I h a ve a da u g hte r tha t' s i n to th e Si k hReligionSo, you know...

John Eastman: - I d o n 't k n o w I j u s t tak e i t a s i t c o me s .

th4 Caller: - OK, it's nice to talk to you. Thank you, bye-bye.


37/38

John Eastman: - Thank you, bye-bye. It's 11:55Hello.

th5 C a l l e r : - H e l l o , M r . E a s t m a n , I w a n t t o g i v e s a l u t a t i o n s . A n d Ih o p e I s a y t h e n a m e r i g h t t o H i s H o l i n e s s F a q i r D a y a l . D r . R a o

a n d t h a n k s v e r y m u c h t o M a r c i a M i l l e r a n d h e r f r i e n d s f o r b r i n g i n g t h i s g e n t l e m a n a n d s c h o l a r o f t h e t r u t h . I ' d l i k e t o m a k ea c o m m e n t i t s e e m s t h a t s o m a n y w e s t e r n e r s , p a r t i c u l a r l y i nr e l i g i o n c a n n o t s e e b e y o n d w o r d s a n d c o n f u s e t h i n g s w i t hl a b e l s . A n d , t h e m i n u t e I l a b e l m y s e l f a s a C h r i s t i a n w h y a l l o f as u d d e n a c i r c l e i s d r a w n a r o u n d m e a n d I c a n n o l o n g e r b e aM o h a m m a d e n o r a B u d d h i s t o r a J e w a n d t h i s j u s t s e e m si n c r e d i b l e . B e c a u s e t h i n g s a r e n o t t h e l a b e l s a n d i f C h r i s t a n d

o t h e r s w e r e t e a c h e r s o f t h e t r u t h t h e y h a d d i s c o v e r e d g r e a tt r u t h s a n d t h o u g h t t o t e a c h t h o s e a n d o f f e r t h e m t o o t h e r m e n .T h i s i s m y b e l i e f a n d I ' v e b e e n v e r y i m p r e s s e d b y t h e a n s w e r sg i v e n b y H i s H o l i n e s s t h i s e v e n i n g a n d h i s c o m m e n t s . I f e e l t h a tp e r h a p s I c a n u n d e r s t a n d h i m v e r y p l a i n l y . S o m e p e o p l e s a i dt h e y c o u l d n ' t . I t h i n k y o u j u s t h a v e t o l i s t e n t o t h e w o r d s a n d m a yt h i n k a b o u t t h e m a l i t t l e . I f t h e r e ' s a w o r d y o u c a n ' t u n d e r s t a n dw h y i t c o m e s t o y o u v e r y q u i c k l y .

John Eastman: - Alright, observational perceptionis of coursebased upon being able to perceive that which you're hearing. And, if it is sub-contrary to your nature or your ideas, then it is imperceptibleand non-perceivable or whatever the word isyou cannot fathom itb ec au se i t i s no t fa ll in g up on a re ci te r th at w il l a ll ow y ou r understanding.

th

5 Caller: - I think you've said it much better than I did.

John Eastman: - I thank you very much for your comment.

th5 Caller: - Also, one further comment I would like to makeearlierthis evening a few minutes ago a question was asked If thoseEastern doctrines are so good why are there so many starvingIndian? Always I read about the starving millions in China and


38/38

John Eastman: - I only have 30 seconds so say what your point is?

th5 Caller: - Well, my point is that before the Western influence onthose countries they were not always starving countries. In India

King Asoka had one of the most progressive kingdoms that historyhas ever known. Where there was a great prosperity and so forth. Itw a s n ot u n ti l th e B r iti s h mo v e d al l o f th e e ntr i e s to In d i a ov e r to thecoast line and made India into a colony that so much poverty and soforth was known. I think we do a great disservice when we try toe v a lu a te th e tr uth s th a t m i gh t c o m e fr om th o s e c o un tr i es i n th eterms of the prosperity of the people there.

John Eastman: - I must thank you and say good-night. We are allout of time.

th5 Caller: - Thank you very much.

His Holiness: - Well brothers, I do not say that whatever I have saidis correct or incorrect. I had a desire in my life to know the Truth andto speak it to the world. Others make claim that whatever they say is

correct and others are wrong. But I do not say that. There is no endto th e s e a rc h o f Go d or n a tu r e . He w ho g o es th e re , h e l o s es h i sindividuality or self-entity. None can explain about what that reallyis. Whatever I have understood in my life I have explained in thiss h or t t i me

John Eastman: - Your Holiness, I appreciate your coming tonight.And I know that it's been difficult in trying to use our languages into

trying to make sense of your philosophy. I appreciate very muchyour sharing with us. And I say good-night and thank you very muchDr. Ram, Marcia .

Thank you all.

Documents

A Broadcast on Reality