9 - Interview With Past President

7/29/2019 9 - Interview With Past President

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The Professional Journal of The Institution of Surveyors, Malaysia

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AN INTERVIEW WITH PAST PRESIDENT

N AA A

Can you please give us a brief

biography of yourself?

I am a quantity surveyor, married to

Nazimah a food scientist, and we are blessed withfour young children Sabina, Nazif, Natasha, andNadia. I hope that is brief enough. My academicand professional qualifications can be found aftermy long name:

Noushad Ali Naseem Ameer Ali BSc (Hons) QS(Reading, UK), CDipAF, MSc Arch (Univ CollegeLondon), MSc Construction Law & Arbitration(Kings College London), PPISM, FISM, MRICS,ICECA, FCIOB, FCIArb, MAPM.

I am a Registered Quantity Surveyor (Msia),Chartered Quantity Surveyor (UK), CharteredBuilder (UK) and an Accredited Mediator (Msia). Ihave worked primarily in the industry in the areasof quantity surveying, project management,construction contracts consultancy, and disputeresolution. My career over the past 25 years alsoincludes research and teaching at universities inMalaysia, the United Kingdom and New Zealand.

How long have you been a member of the

ISM and what are the positions you haveheld during those years as a member?

I have been a member of ISM for 25 years. Ibecame a graduate member in 1986 and wasadmitted as a corporate member in 1988.

There are too many ISM positions I have served,spread over a 20 year period. I will highlight a few.At the ISM level: President, Deputy President,Secretary General, Council member and EditorialBoard member. At Quantity Surveying Divisionallevel: Division Chair, Secretary and Treasurer. Andmuch earlier at the QS Division sub-committee

level: CPD and Sports, and Social committees.

I have much to thank Tuan Haji Harun and PastPresident Tuan Haji Basar Juraimi of Basar & Harun,

PP Sr Noushad Ali Naseem Ameer Ali


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THEMALAYSIANSURVEYOR | Vol.46 | No.2 | 2011

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Quantity Surveyors for the opportunity to work andqualify as a member of the ISM and to serve the ISM,particularly during my formative years. Working with themconfirmed that Monday morning blues is a myth atleast for me.

Currently you are residing in New Zealand. Canyou share some of the latest developments?

I might physically be in Auckland or Petaling Jaya orsometimes even in London, Hong Kong, Sydney,Singapore, Dunedin, Johor Bahru or Penang, but my mindis always developing things relating to what is good forsociety, the construction industry, academia and theprofession. That continually inquiring and researchingmind keeps us active. Regular contact through moderntechnology including Skype video conferencing with mypeers keeps the virtual contact seamless.

A few notable things on my mind now include thecompletion of my PhD in the area of adjudication, thestatus of the proposed Construction Industry Paymentand Adjudication Act for Malaysia, the modernising ofconstruction contracts including the Model Terms for sub-contracts, the redrafting of the new Malaysian Design andBuild contract into plain English, and researching anddrafting a plain English construction contract for minorworks and smaller projects. Systematising work includingbusinesses like consultancies or sharing knowledgethrough research and teaching can make things moreefficient. Dont forget, I also have my other passions in lifetoo my wife Nazimah and four young children!

There are also a few other projects I have in mind. Hopethey will all come to fruition over the next few years allfor the benefits of society, industry, academia, and theprofession.

My vision for the ISM

is to see it providing

core services to its

members and

potential members in

a very

manner, and to be a

leader in facilitating

its members to

provide state-of-the-

art services.

Two diversified surveyors seeking inspiration and knowledge on

adjudication from afar


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What are the progresses that

you have seen for the QS

profession and the Institution

in particular?

I have seenmuch progress within TheInstitution of Surveyors, Malaysia over

the years.

The ISM congress and QS conventionsare well established regular featuresnow. They were not before notduring my early days of ISMmembership. And there was a recenttrend to open it out to society ingeneral with wider topic areas. Whatcould be better is for the conferencesto be more relevant and useful tomore of our members and practical innature and focused by discipline. That

might even mean much moretechnical papers organised bydiscipline. A quantity surveyor mighthave little interest in the latestdevelopments relating to geodeticsurveying or photogrammatry, and ageomatic and land surveyor mighthave little interest in an expert systemthat can accurately forecastconstruction cost or the latestdevelopments in the law relating toextensions of time in constructioncontracts. It might be difficult with thediffering divisions that we have, but itcan be done by giving more focus tospecific divisional topic areas andlimiting and keeping the commonplenary sessions to topics of practicaluse and general appeal.

The ISM has also recently taken upthe challenge of becoming moreinternational. If this challenge is tosucceed, the ISM needs to work withit associated regulatory boards andrelated professional bodies aroundthe world. And members mustembrace the use of technology toprovide their services in a moreseamless borderless way and notjust be bound by the four walls of aphysical office in Kuala Lumpur, KotaKinabalu, Johor or Penang.

Even the The Malaysian Surveyorjournal is so much better in itsoutlook. It can go to greater heights aslong as we maintain the editorialquality. Typos and significantgrammatical errors of the past shouldnever be allowed to creep back in.

Published documents cannot havesuch mistakes.

On progress of the Quantity Surveyingprofession itself, much more could beachieved. So much more. Time andagain topics on innovation, modernapproaches, 21st century issues aretalked about in seminars andconferences, but in reality so much

has yet to be actually embraced.Whilst we have isolated membersventuring into new areas ofopportunities, we have not reached acritical mass of quantity surveyorsembracing the forefront of so manyareas waiting to be tapped into.Among them project management,planning and programming, disputeresolution, facilities management,mechanical and electrical engineeringquantity surveying, oil and gasquantity surveying, contractadministration, green buildingadvisory services, practicalimplementation of life-cycle costing,adoption of building informationmodelling methods, or even valueengineering or management. I repeat we have much opportunities butwe do not have the critical mass ofmembers embracing theseopportunities yet.

What are your visions for ISM ?

My vision for the ISM is to see itproviding core services to its membersand potential members in a veryefficientmanner, and to be a leaderin facilitating its members to providestate-of-the-art services. We shouldnot just be holding the fort andresting on our traditional past. Speedand efficiency is critical in this modernera of technology. A wider vision onexpanding services and keeping anopen mind is important.

My vision is, of course, only worth asmuch as the extent to which it is

the result of my research around the world

convinced me that contracts can be written in

plain language without losing legal intent.


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shared and carried forward by futurePresidents and councils.

You are well known for

promoting simple construction

contracts. How do you see

this as a relevant contribution

to the industry and the

country?

I do believe in and promote plainlanguage construction contracts andplain communication. Since 2003, Ihave been doing research on theanomaly between the language styleused in documents such asconstruction contract, legislationaffecting construction contracts, salesand purchase contracts, and tenancycontracts. These contracts or

legislation are often written intraditional legal style or legalese.But the parties to the contract oftendo not understand the contract.Either the public must all beeducated to understand traditionallegalese or the contracts must beredrafted in plain language withoutlosing legal intent.

Effectively, I put up my hands andacknowledged I did not understandsome of the contract clauses or

legislative provisions. I just happenedto be the one who flagged out thisanomaly. I see myself as the kid whoshouted the emperor has noclothes! But I did not just flag thisout, I wanted answers. Like why theuse of and/or been referred to as aJanus-faced verbal monstrosity andas bastardly by judges? Or the littleknown fact that shall has multiplemeanings in law and is best avoided?

I found little answers in Malaysia

so I searched the world for answers. Ieven attended courses in the UnitedKingdom and New Zealand and

bought every book I could get hold ofthat had been written on plain legaldrafting worth thousands of dollarsand pounds!

A little digression, I will never forgetthe day I bought a large number of

books from a few bookshops incentral London a few years ago.Knowing I was going to buy a fairnumber, I had brought a largesuitcase with me to the bookshops. Iplanned to drop in to the hotel andleave my suitcase and books therebefore going for my nextappointment. But I was so carriedaway at the bookshops, I wasrunning late. So I got my heavysuitcase and dragged it acrossLondon straight to my next

appointment instead of dropping itoff at the hotel. It was anappointment with Ian DuncanWallace QC the well knownauthority on construction law andeditor of Hudsons Engineering andBuilding contracts. I could never belate for thatappointment!

When I arrived at his apartment andknocked on his door he did noteven wink a little seeing a brownAsian man dragging a heavy suitcase

knocking at his door in West London.We had a memorable chat. Later, heinvited me for lunch at a Singaporeanrestaurant down the road. We had avery interesting chat aboutadjudication, his controversial viewsabout conspiracies by contractdrafting bodies in the UnitedKingdom, and about whether anyonehad ever sued him for his boldstatements on drafting bodiesconspiracies.

After lunch we went back to hisapartment and later he bade mefarewell as I trudged along with mysuitcase laden with plain languagelegal drafting books into the hustleand bustle of central London. I wasonly to meet him one more timeafter that a few years later with asmall team from the ConstructionIndustry Development BoardMalaysia and Geoff Bayley, arenowned adjudicator who wasinstrumental in introducing

adjudication to New Zealand. Thistime our discussions were onadjudication a few other general

A key statement I have made repeatedly is

I would rather there be no adjudication in

Malaysia than to have lousy adjudicators

dispensing speedy injustice!


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issues. Soon after that second meeting at his home, hepassed away. What a loss to the construction lawcommunity.

Incidentally, I was not stopped by police on my journeyback to the hotel and there were no newspaper reportsof any incidents in London that day! A few days later, Ireturned to Malaysia with over 60 kg worth of luggage -mainly books, about 35 kg in my hand luggage and

close to another 30 kg in my checked-in suitcase.

Back to business: the result of my research around theworld convinced me that contracts can be written inplain language without losing legal intent. I now striveto use plain language. If contracts can be and arewritten in plain language that parties to the contractand the contract administrator and lawyers and judgescan understand on first reading, it will lead to greaterefficiency when administering the contract. And thechances of unwarranted disputes materialising arereduced.

That is relevant and beneficial to the core business ofthe construction industry and society. It does not feedthe peripheral dispute resolution industry but as allprofessionals know or ought to know, the professionalmust be altruistic prioritising societys interest overself-interest.

I have not stopped. I am at the tail end of redraftingthe proposed new Design and Build contract forMalaysia. And I have just finished drafting a universalconstruction contract that might have the potential ofbeing used anywhere in the world with little or nochanges needed. The contract is in plain language, ofcourse. I am doing some preliminary testing in NewZealand and Malaysia and a few other countries. Thereis some likelihood of it being translated to otherlanguages. We shall see.

If you want a copy and some notes on this draftuniversal plain language construction contract, emailme at [email protected]. Feedback will beappreciated.

These initiatives have had challenges. So far the biggestchallenges have not come from lawyers. I have hadpeople calling me a crusaderin my quest to promoteplain language. I take that in a positive note. I have had

much support from the masses from the constructionindustry, from authorities from the constructionindustry most notably the Construction IndustryDevelopment Board, and many top plain legallanguage world authorities including judges, lawprofessors, lawyers, linguists, and academics.

I have several other ideas relating to plain language inMalaysia. Developed countries like New Zealand,Australia, and even the United Kingdom have movedforward in adopting plain language. We can learn fromtheir experience. Some have even mandated plainlanguage use through legislation. Adopting plainlanguage across society means greater efficiency. Let ussee what can be achieved in my lifetime God willing.

You seem to be deeply involved in

adjudication. Would you consider yourself to

be Mr Adjudication in Malaysia?

Mr Adjudication!?

Among my goals for society, the construction industry,our profession, and my area of work are greaterefficiency. You heard me say a few things onmodernising construction contracts for greater

efficiency.

Disputes are a digression for people in the constructionindustry. Instead of focusing on the core business of

Promoting modern plain legal drafting to the Malaysian Chief Justice with the help of top world modern legal authorities


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construction or development or constructionconsultancy, disputes take us away from our corebusiness. Instead, it feeds the dispute resolutionindustry. To the construction industry, the disputeresolution industry is peripheral.

I have been involved in dispute resolution includingarbitrations as part of my consultancy services includingthrough CIC-QS Services, Beard Dove, and the High-PointRendel consultancy groups. The gross inefficiency andwastage of time and money really woke me up one day.I was always looking at alternatives. I did some research.Mediation came about, and it is great, but requiredconsensus and a will to settle amicably. That will is notalways present in construction disputes.

Enter adjudication. Adjudication has been statutorilyenacted in the United Kingdom, New Zealand, all statesin Australia, and Singapore. With over a dozen years

experience in it, it has been referred to as arunawaysuccess by Dr Robert Gaitskell a top construction lawyer(a Queens Counsel) cum engineer in the UK and asrevolutionaryby the head of the Technology andConstruction court in the UK Sir Vivian Ramsey. JohnRiches, a quantity surveyor in the UK says it has been thebest thing since sliced bread was invented. And GeoffBayley, a quantity surveyor in New Zealand says it hasbeen a dispute resolution revolution.

Why has it been so successful? It is fast the statuteslimit the timeframe for completing the adjudication typically limited to days. Not surprisingly, it is also

economical as the time is limited. Adjudication alsoallows the disputes to be resolved when it happens contemporaneously. Commercial parties would rather

resolve their disputes quickly and economically than tohave the finest justice dispensed after years inarbitration or in court incurring great expense.

One major consequence since the introduction ofadjudication is the number of construction arbitrations

has reduced significantly. To me, a true professionalwould see that as a good thing. Saving time and moneyfrom reduced protracted dispute resolution methodswhether in court or in arbitration is good for society even if at the expense of arbitrators fees and legal fees.

How did all this start in Malaysia? When the constructionindustry got together at a first industry get-together tolook at improving the construction industry in June 2003,I represented the ISM. Subsequently, 10 areas of prioritywere identified and I was nominated to chair a workinggroup on payment (WG 10). Following research aroundthe world, I then made recommendations for the

creation of a Malaysian Construction Industry Paymentand Adjudication. The Construction IndustryDevelopment Board facilitated extensive consultationsand investigation into what model might be best forMalaysia. The construction industry was generallysupportive of the initiative. Among them the MasterBuilders Association Malaysias support wasextraordinarily strong.

Wanting to know even more, I thought the best way tolearn was to research at the highest level (at PhD level).My research is being done through the University ofAuckland and Massey University in New Zealand. I knew

by researching deeply, I would be able to see throughgood suggestions and mere objections to adjudicationsby those with vested interests.

Discussing best adjudication model for Malaysia with top adjudicators worldwide


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Again, as in any endeavour, there were challenges. Thechallenges came later primarily from the MalaysianBar Council initially who were then joined by a fewbodies such as the Malaysian Institute of Arbitrators.

A construction lawyer who is also a qualified quantity

surveyor, Mr Lim Chong Fong, was asked to prepare adraft act based on the concepts that we had thoughtmight be best for the Malaysian construction industry.He too faced enormous challenges from differingparties with different vested interests.

After much struggles, the cabinet approved theconcepts in principle in July 2009. Recently, the BarCouncil shifted its stand from total objection to theproposed Act entirely to discussing what conceptsneed to be debated and refined to accommodate as acompromise among the many parties with interests init. This approach has also been taken up recently by

the Kuala Lumpur Regional Centre for Arbitrationrecently. I am pleased with these developments.

My only wish is for the final Act that eventually ispassed in parliament to be one that is best for societyand the construction industry. That has to prevail overvested interests of arbitration bodies and professionalbodies whether representing lawyers, architects,engineers or quantity surveyors.

A key statement I have made repeatedly is I wouldrather there be no adjudication in Malaysia than tohave lousy adjudicators dispensing speedy injustice! In

other words, I want the training and quality standardsfor adjudicators in Malaysia to be maintained at thehighest level anywhere in the world.

So, I dont know about being Mr Adjudication, but Iam passionate about adjudication because it is somuch more efficient. That is good for society and theconstruction industry.

Could you comment on surveying education

in Malaysia? How do you see surveying as a

professional career?

I have always thought surveying specifically quantitysurveying or valuation surveying is among the best firstdegrees and educational experience one could get.Why? Because it is balanced. The course contenttypically draws on both right and left brain abilities.There is a huge amount of number crunching orquantitative subjects measurement, technology,valuation, feasibility studies, estimating, costing, andcomputer applications. At the same time there aremany qualitative subjects like management,economics, the law of contract, tort, legal systems,more specialised law like land law, landlord and tenantlaw, construction law, and construction contracts.

I prefer this balanced educational experience atundergraduate level than those that focus substantially

on eitherthe sciences (like engineering, chemistry,physics, medicine, mathematics) orthe arts orqualitative subjects like law, economics, businessstudies, sociology or politics.

The fact that these surveying professions offer the

opportunity to have a balance of outdoor work likegoing to construction sites or property sites, and theindoor office environment also appeals to me. Theseare some of the reasons why I chose to read quantitysurveying at university. I wanted this ideal balance.

I have my father to thank much for doing all the careerinvestigation even when I was at the final stages of mystudies at secondary school at the Malay College KualaKangsar. He consulted architects and others in practicein the construction industry and communicated withuniversities in the United Kingdom way in advanceof my entry to university in the UK.

I have suggested surveying degrees are greateducational experiences as undergraduate courses.That does not mean one has to be limited by that forthe rest of their lives. You can always specialise inother related areas after qualifying as a surveyingprofessional. I know of very successful constructionlawyers with a quantity surveying background. I alsoknow successful corporate figures with valuationsurveying backgrounds.

Do you think there are any common

misconceptions people have about the

surveying profession?

Some think surveying means holding measuringequipment and roaming the streets. How far from true.Others think quantity surveying means measuringquantities thats it. I have not measured quantities ina long time! But I am a quantity surveyor.

And some think valuation surveying is like estateagency where you act as an agent for a house ownerand only sell houses!

Part of the misconception comes from the narrow

name surveying. And part of it can be faulted onsurveyors themselves. We need to explain to others family, society, anyone what we do. I rememberexplaining to a security officer at Auckland airport whatsurveyors do when he saw my name tag Sr Naseemand asked me what Srstood for. I made it clear it wasshort for Surveyor not short for Sir and that I was notknighted yet.

What is your advice to those who wish to

pursue a career in the Quantity Surveying

profession?

Like the Nike tag-line I suggest, just get on and dothe course once you have decided. Then focus ongetting your professional memberships that arerecognised in Malaysia and elsewhere. Then start


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looking at niche areas or specific areas of interest that youmight want to specialise in. Or look at new areas thathave yet to be ventured into.

Some might want to do a masters degree. Some peoplewill tell you masters degrees are only for academics.

Dont listen to them. Trust me I have done two mastersdegrees! It will only enhance your career whether youare in industry or academia or both!

Then you might want to do a PhD. Again some (probably98% of colleagues) will tell you that is only for academics.Arguing with naysayers is futile so just smile at them andget on and do it if you want to. Ask Ir Dr Gue See Sew ofthe Institution of Engineers Malaysia a well-knownpracticing engineer and renowned expert witness whether a doctorate is only for academics. It is not.

After nearly 50 years in operation, what are

the successes ISM has achieved and what are

the challenges ahead?

The successes of the ISM are numerous. I have identifiedsome of them earlier. I wont dwell. I will deal withchallenges instead it is more challenging!

Everyone talks about challenges from outside - challengesfrom the overseas onslaught as globalization widens,challenges from large competitors within and outsideMalaysia, challenges of being swallowed by largepractices, and even challenges from other professions. Idonotsee these as the biggest challenges.

Of course these are challenges and must be addressed.And in line with the Malaysian passion for titles andrecognition, getting the royal status for ISM (effective July the Royal Institution of Surveyors Malaysia or RISM) isunprecedented, an extraordinary achievement and a greathonour and recognition. That achievement is a muchgreater achievement and recognition than even ourearlier initiative to encourage members to vote tointroduce the prefix Sr to make ourselves more visibleand recognised.

These are all important, but I see internal challenges as

the greatest challenges for quantity surveyors. Thechallenges from the man in the mirror you (and me!).Here are some of the internal challenges.

Bribery and corruption. Bribery and corruption is not likecancer. Cancer only affects the person and indirectly thosesurrounding the person. Cancer can even be isolated andthe person can recover. Bribery and corruption is like anuncontrollable infectious disease. More like addictivedrugs, drinking, or gambling. Once affected, it spreads likewild fire. It is very difficult to stop. And like uncontrolledwild fire or a tsunami, it will swallow everyone up. That isthe greatest challenge facing the quantity surveying

profession. We are at the forefront of the financial aspectsof the construction industry. If we ourselves are corrupt ingetting some measly fees for consultancy work, it is very

easy to be bought over into believing that it is ok tounder or over value to suit parties needs instead ofexercising professional judgment. We must look at what ishappening around the world in both developed anddeveloping countries and raise to the highest level ofcleansing ourselves from this disease. Treat it with

contempt and disgust. It is jijik. It is a public enemy. If weare going to give the excuse that it is in the system andwe cannot do anything about it think again. Quit theprofession. And quit the industry. Go sell nasi lemakinstead or be a tuition teacher. That would be better forthe construction industry, society, and our soul.

Another internal challenge is the attitude challenge. Inshort, I would just repeat what has famously been saidbut modified for the ISM. Ask not what others like ISMcan do for you; instead ask what you can do for yourself.Ask what you can do to improve yourself and then doit. The consequences will follow. We cannot change the

world but we can change ourselves. Usually positivechange will have a positive consequence and a negativechange will have negative consequence.

What is your advice to young surveyors?

My advice to young surveyors?

(i) It does not matter where you came from or whereyou are now. What matters is where you are headingto in the future. If you want to know how your futureis likely to look like, look around you at your closestfriends. You are likely to be like them. If you like it,

fine. If you want to be more successful, start mixingwith a new lot of people. The kind of people youaspire to be. Do not, I repeat, do not mix withnegative people the naysayers. And of course donot mix with the corrupt! Treat them with disgust because they are scumbags worse than cancer.

If you continue doing what you have been doing overpast few years, you can bet you are likely to be whereyou are now in a few years. To be different or to be ata different level, you have to act differently today, dothings differently.

(ii) Look out for your Unique Selling Proposition (USP).Everyone is unique not just in thumb print, tongueprint, and the iris. Look at what unique skills youhave. If you have nothing obviously outstanding, lookat what you want to develop and be good at. Anyone,I repeat, anyone, can be an expert in something thatthey choose to specialise in if they have enoughpassion to develop that skill and are willing to puttime into it. Combine all the hard work with someextra help from God!

Actually these pieces of advice might be good advice forthe not-so-young surveyors too!

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9 - Interview With Past President