82068357 Pedicure Manicure and Beyond

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Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

PEDICURE, MANICURE AND BEYOND

Teachings on the Heart Sūtra

&

The Perfection of Wisdom

Frankfurt, Germany

August 2003



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TABLE OF CONTENTS

The Quintessential Sūtra ............................................................8

Mind at the Height of Normality...................................................9

Defining Normality .................................................................. 10 Creating a little Abnormality to Reach Normality ......................... 10

The Fundamental Ignorance of a Buddhist .................................. 11

There Is Nowhere to be Led ....................................................... 11

Without Wisdom, Morality Is a Cause of...................................... 12

Pride and Ego .......................................................................... 12

Absolute Normality Is Wisdom................................................... 13

Stickiness and Comfort Zones:................................................... 13 The World of Abnormality......................................................... 13

The Three Misperceptions ......................................................... 14

Hand Is Emptiness, Emptiness Is Hand ........................................ 15

The Meaning of ‘Thus have I heard’ ............................................ 15

Characteristicless: ................................................................... 16

No Morality, No Absence of Morality .......................................... 16

Shākyamuni Buddha, Nirmāņikāya Buddha ................................ 17

Instead of the Five Skandhas,.................................................... 18

why not a Scientific Breakthrough? ............................................ 18

Explaining the Five Skandhas: going beyond................................ 20

useful and useless .................................................................... 20

Questions Relating to the Five Skandhas..................................... 21

One who Realizes Emptiness ..................................................... 24

Love is Emptiness, Emptiness is Love .......................................... 27

Dwelling in the Profound Samādhi of.......................................... 28

Prajnaparamita Liberates you ................................................... 28

Buddhism Is a Path to Deconstruct the Ego.................................. 29

The Prajnaparamita:................................................................ 30

It Pulls the Rug out from under you............................................. 30

Discussing the meaning of:........................................................ 31

“Form is Emptiness” ................................................................. 31

Don’t try to look for the Emptiness ............................................. 35



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Emptiness Meditation: Beyond pre-manicure, .............................. 36

post-manicure and mid-manicure............................................... 36

Form: shape, color, size, quantity, and quality..............................37

Form exists as a mirage and therefore ........................................ 38 “Emptiness is Form” ................................................................. 38

It is not as if “Form is Real” and it Suddenly................................. 39

becomes Emptiness .................................................................. 39

Form is a bit like a Hideout and Feeling is the ............................... 41

Moody Receptionist.................................................................. 41

Perception as your Translator.................................................... 42

Karmic Formation: ................................................................... 43 the Working Guy, your Staff...................................................... 43

Consciousness: the Man behind the Desk..................................... 44

Each time we Speak, it is a Generalization................................... 45

We are not Negating that Form Exists......................................... 46

We all have Renunciation Mind.................................................. 48

but do it in Slow Motion ............................................................ 48

We have to Learn and Accept .................................................... 49

We are Cookable...................................................................... 49

There is no Emptiness to Meditate on.......................................... 50

The Three Characteristics of No Birth: beginning, middle and

end ........................................................................................ 51

Emotions are also Conditioned................................................... 53

Not Knowing the Mirage is a Mirage, it can.................................. 55

always be Misunderstood as Water ............................................ 55

With Direct Cognition there is No Interpreter between you and

the Experience......................................................................... 56

Happiness comes out of Realizing............................................... 59

that there is no Independent Happiness ...................................... 59

Avalokiteshvara is Negating the thought: ................................... 61

‘the Mirage is Water’ ................................................................ 61

Discussing the Skandhas and the Emotions ................................. 62

Even the Twelve Nidhanas do not Exist....................................... 67



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Different Terms for Different Purposes .......................................68

Visualization comes within the category of:................................. 70

Outer, Objective Phenomena..................................................... 70

Milarepa and Marpa: Sometimes Masters can make a big Deal out of Nothing ......................................................................... 71

When Watching the Skandhas:.................................................. 72

You shouldn’t be doing anything ................................................ 72

The Mantra of Prajnaparamitra ................................................. 74

Two Great Commentators: .........................................................77

Nagarjuna and Maitreya............................................................77

An Interdependent Ceremony of Auspicious ................................. 80 Verses .................................................................................... 80



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PEDICURE, MANICURE, AND BEYOND

Recently, I saw a very good German film called,

“Enlightenment Guaranteed.” On every level, whether it befrom the script point of view, or from the Buddhist point of view,

it is wonderful. If you watch this you don’t need any teachings.

It’s amazing. The film ends with the chanting of the Heart Sūtra.

The Quintessential Sūtra

Probably, the Heart Sūtra is one sūtra that has traveled the most

widely to the most countries. For instance, with the Peacock

Sūtra, it traveled from India to Burma to Sri Lanka and around

India itself and that’s about it. The Sūtra of Rice Heap traveled

from India to China and was also disseminated a little bit in

Tibet. But this sūtra really traversed vast distances, extending as

far as China, Japan, and Korea.

This sūtra is the heart of the Mahāyāna wisdom but

actually, in some of the strongest Buddhist countries, like in

Thailand and Burma for instance, you don’t find this sūtra. In

fact, in some places like Sri Lanka, this sūtra is still disputed.

They want confirmation that this sūtra is really the spoken

words of the Buddha. Also, from a certain point of view, the

contents of the sūtra are quite shocking.

In the Mahāyāna, the Heart Sūtra, or the prajnaparamita,

is the quintessence of many, many sūtras. The hridya of the

Heart Sūtra is the essence of all the sūtras. It is the essence of

prajna. This is the shortest form. The next, slightly longer form

has eight thousand verses. Then beyond that there is another

form that has twenty thousand verses, and then seven hundred

thousand verses and so on.



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We don’t have much of a tradition of studying the actual

text. Instead, this is something that the students or the

practitioners usually chant. So it is not really a text, in the sense

of a study text but if that is your aim, usually you would studythe commentaries such as the Mādhyamakavatara or the

Uttaratantra. As you will see, the Heart Sūtra is not easy to

study. It is basically an afternoon discussion with a few people,

up on the mountain at Vulture’s Peak. Yet still, many, many,

many, commentaries have sprung from this.

Mind at the Height of Normality

Prajna means something like: the supreme mind. It is the

essence, the quintessence of the supreme mind. The supreme

mind is sometimes referred to as jnana, wisdom. Sometimes if

you prefer, or if you are in a more sentimental, romantic frame

of mind then the same supreme mind can be referred to as

karuna, compassion. And when you are in the mood of being a

kind of impossible philosopher, then the same supreme mind is

referred to as shunyata, the emptiness. When you are in the

mood of being a priest who wishes to pat depressed souls on the

shoulders and all of that, then the same supreme mind is

referred to as Buddha nature, the tathagatagarbha.

Basically all these terms are talking about the same thing:

the supreme mind. We call it sherab: supreme mind, or

primordial mind. But what is that? What is this supreme mind?

It’s really difficult to find out. To explain this in a most practical,

easy kind of format, the supreme mind is a mind at the height of

normality. When the mind is absolutely normal, with not even a

small centimeter of a stain – this absolute normality – that is

called the supreme mind.



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Defining Normality

But you see, now we have a problem. How do we define

normality? How do we measure it? For some, handcuffs andchains are normal, leather pants are normal, and piercing is

normal. For others, these are things we can’t even imagine.

These things are considered completely sacrilegious or

something unholy. I am sure that for some people, to even

begin to think of a pierced nipple is something almost beyond

you. For others, this same thing is something that is very much

up your alley.So it is very difficult to judge normality. This is why the

shastras and the commentaries are necessary.

Creating a little Abnormality to Reach Normality

I must say the Zen approach, as can be seen in the film

“Enlightenment Guaranteed,” is a very good way to invoke

normality. It is not the answer for everyone, but it is definitely

one of the more risk free and safest of answers.

What do they say to do? Of course, it might not be

worded exactly this way because I am sort of interpreting this,

but basically, in order to invoke the normality, you have to sit;

do zazen, they call it. You just have to sit, sit, sit. Don’t pray,

don’t chant, don’t think, just sit.

Likewise, consider the Theravadan way of doing things,

which is to shave the head, wear a very nice maroon robe, walk

with a begging bowl, and not eat after lunch. All of that is

actually, another way to invoke the normality. So sometimes, in

order to bring forth the normality, we create some abnormality

such as shaving off our hair. By breaking a certain habitual

pattern, your usual habitual pattern, that then invokes the



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normality. And this is why, in the Shrāvaka tradition, you see

this seemingly very religious, very ethical, morality oriented

approach.

Of course, it is even worse if you travel within theVajrayāna, what with being asked to visualize extra hands and

all of this. But again, this entire path, it is all a placebo: all these

things are placebos. You create a little bit of abnormality so that

you can then reach normality.

The Fundamental Ignorance of a Buddhist

When it comes to the highest methods of the Vajrayāna,

such as the practice of mahāsandhi or mahāmudrā, they don’t

do anything, basically. They don’t tell you to sit. They don’t tell

you to visualize extra hands, and nor do they tell you to shave

off all your hair. It’s so simple. The mahāsandhi master will say:

“Can you see the flowers? Can you see this beautiful orange

color? Can you feel your earring, hanging from your ear?” Then

they will say, “That’s it.” You say: “Yes, I can see the flower. I can

see the window.” And then, they say, “That’s it.” Supposedly,

this is the most profound, greatest teaching of all. And I believe

that it is. But it is too simple. We just miss it, always. The guru

says, “Can you see the flower,” and we say, “Yes, I can see the

flower, and so what’s the big deal?” Do you know why we

always miss it? The fundamental problem is this thinking: as a

follower of a spiritual path there is a goal . Our being Buddhist,

our goal is to become that, become something. We have a goal.

That is the fundamental ignorance of a Buddhist.

There Is Nowhere to be Led

Do you know why we become Buddhist? If you seriously

want to become a practitioner of the buddhadharma, it is your



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job to destroy the system. In other words, even the very aim of

having a goal, even that needs to be destroyed.

You will find that being Buddhist is like peeling an onion.

You peel and peel until you think there is a real onion, but thenthat is also just another layer. All along, expecting some kind of

an essential, quintessential seed, there inside all these layers:

that is the problem. That is what usually causes all this hope and

expectation, and of course, almost 99 percent of the time, hope

and expectation lead to disappointment. So it’s very difficult. It’s

a path. Buddhism is a path. As soon as we say, “this a path” we

somehow believe that it leads somewhere, whereas in fact,there is nowhere to be led and it is quite important that

information is always very much present in our head. This is why

Buddhism is really difficult.

Without Wisdom, Morality Is a Cause of

Pride and Ego

I really think Buddhism should be simplified. It should be

something like: at least once in your lifetime you visit Bodh

Gaya, a Buddhist wife must have more than four husbands, and

since the Hindus have already reserved the cow, and the

Muslims the pig, I guess as Buddhists, we should not eat Chicken.

In other words, the problem with Buddhism is: wisdom is the

highest value. It is not just all morality and ethics, for that comes

later. But people like rules. People like to think of morality and

ethics as the highest aspect. It attracts people. Of course, we are

not denying discipline, morality and all of that, but as the

masters of the past have said: these things must always be

accompanied by wisdom. Without the wisdom, morality is a

cause of pride and the ego. In Buddhism, this is something that

is taught again and again.



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Absolute Normality Is Wisdom

The mind at its height, in a state of absolute normality,this is the wisdom. But it’s difficult, because our mind is almost

always like honey. It is a bit similar to honey, not contained

within its bottle or jar. It collects things or leaves stains

everywhere. It is so sticky. Either you stick to the object or the

object sticks to you. You will realize this.

Stickiness and Comfort Zones:The World of Abnormality

Through sitting it makes us realize our mind is very sticky.

When sticky, the mind collects garbage and you become

abnormal; when mixed with all kinds of things the honey is not

only honey, it is not pure.

Once in a while, you may experience being very much in

the present, but most of the time, mind goes here, there and

everywhere. It drifts into judging, feeling and we get lost in that.

In fact, in this world, billions of dollars have been spent on just

that, losing ourselves. It is such a big thing, and so precious to be

lost in thought that we spend a great deal of money on it. Again,

ultimately, you become abnormal. But how do you become

abnormal?

First of all, the object, or the place within which you lose

yourself, is usually what we call “comfort zone.” Now while we

may label it as a comfort zone, it is actually something causing

us a lot of discomfort. It is a place that has only enough space for

one. But strangely enough, sometimes we like to invite our

partners in. Having done so, since it is your comfort zone, you

then want your partner to behave, for instance by walking like

you, and moving like you. Then it gets even more complicated.



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If, everyday, your partner happens to move like you, your

partner is thought to be boring. Within each of your comfort

zones, there are all these subdivisions. On the one hand you

want your partner to move in a slightly different way from you,as it is exciting, isn’t it? But if this happens too much, it again

becomes a problem. There are just so many problems within the

world of abnormality. So normality, the absolute normality, this

is what we are looking for.

The Three Misperceptions

We end up making a lot of mistakes, when dwelling so

much in abnormality. According to the Shrāvakayāna, we make

three constant mistakes. It is quite an interesting way of

thinking. They say, when looking at your hand for instance,

there are three simultaneous mistakes we are making. For one,

you think the hand you see is the same as yesterday’s hand,

which means you think of it as a permanent hand. That is one

mistake. The second mistake is: as you look at it, you only look

at the hand as a whole, not as parts. Like for instance, we say,

“Can I shake your hand,” and would never say, “can I shake your

flesh, blood and bones?” We always have an abstract idea of

“hand.” Now this is important, because it is what determines

your purchase of hand moisturizing cream. The third mistake is:

we think of it as independent. We are always forgetting the

facts. Our hand is moving very nicely at the moment, only

because you haven’t bitten into it, and only because the ceiling

hasn’t caved in and fallen on this hand. It is moving because

your spine hasn’t been broken, and so there is no paralysis to

your hands. We just don’t think like that. Instead, we think of

“hand” as an independent attribute.

It is a very sophisticated way of thinking. These thoughts

of the Shrāvakas are 2500 year-old thoughts that are also the



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fundamentals of Buddhism. It is not something we have to

reform as the years go by. From this day right up to eternity,

never will you one day reach a state where your hand will

become permanent.This is not something negative. It should encourage you

to buy a really good hand cream. If your hand were permanent,

and if yesterday’s hand and today’s hand were identical, why

would you even buy moisturizer? Thanks to the impermanence

there is a chance that such and such a brand of moisturizer will

work. Not only with the hand, but with everything, this is how

the Theravadin sees things, no matter whether it is related tothe political system, leaders, justice, rights, freedom –

everything. All these things are interdependent. They are

impermanent and made up of so many components. So with

these three reasons in mind, we can reach the conclusion hand

is emptiness.

The Heart Sūtra: Hand Is Emptiness, Emptiness Is

Hand

So “Form is emptiness,” this much, we also hear from

the Shrāvakas but the Mahāyāna Heart Sūtra is even more

radical than that. To say, “Emptiness is hand, hand is not other

than emptiness, emptiness is not other than hand” this part is

something taught in the Mahāyāna exclusively, and it begins

with, “Thus have I heard ... ”

The Meaning of ‘Thus have I heard’

In this instance, the “I” in “Thus have I heard,” refers to

Ananda. Basically, by saying, “Thus have I heard,” there is the



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implication: it is not his revelation. Unlike some modern day

authors, who like to plagiarize just about everything and claim it

as their own, it is completely the opposite here. This is

something he has heard; it is not coming out of his ownrealisation. Almost all the sūtras begin with these words, “Thus I

have heard.” There is that aspect, “I was witness,” and it also

indicates that what follows is an authentic teaching of the

Buddha. Of course, not only was Ananda a witness, there was

also a gathering of the sangha of monks.

There are actually two gatherings to talk about here.

With teachings such as the Four Noble Truths, the gatheringconsisted of the sangha of monks, but since this is a Mahāyāna

teaching, in this case, there are extraordinary listeners in the

gathering. There is the sangha of Mahāyāna bodhisattvas.

Ananda also indicates the place as Rājagŗiha at Vultures Peak.

Even to this present day, Vulture’s Peak, this rather

unspectacular, small hill in India, whatever it is or isn’t, this is

one place the Mahāyāna people refer to as the Buddha’s roar, or

the lion’s roar.

Of course, there are other special places such as Sarnath,

Varanasi, where the Buddha taught the Four Noble Truths and

many other teachings, but most of these teachings are designed

to make people enter the virtuous path. The aim is more

focused on diverting attention away from the wrong view of

non-virtue to the right view, which is the virtuous view. Broadly

speaking, you can say that most of these teachings are based on

shila, which is the discipline or the morality.

Characteristicless: No Morality, No Absence

of Morality

Within the Mahāyāna canon of teachings, Vulture’s Peak

is regarded as very significant, because in this given place and



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time, what we call “the teaching of characteristicless” was first

delivered. “No morality, no absence of morality,” so this is a

sūtra that is beyond all that. Interestingly enough, sūtras are

usually the direct words of the Buddha. Even though this is ateaching not spoken directly by the Buddha, it was very much

caused by the Buddha and thus the Heart Sūtra is also

characterized as one of the sūtras.

Shākyamuni Buddha, Nirmāņikāya Buddha

Ananda says:

At that time, the Blessed One entered the

samādhi that expresses the dharma called

“profound illumination,”

Here it almost indicates that the Buddha entered into

meditation. If we were to take it really literally, we would then

be saying the Buddha has “post-meditation time” and

“meditation time.” Even worse, we are assuming he actually

meditates, which shouldn’t be the case because meditation is a

path, and the Buddha is not on the path. In fact, to speak of his

entering samādhi is but one of his many infinite ways of

benefiting sentient beings.

He is seemingly many things. From the Mahāyāna’s

point of view, the fact the Buddha appeared barefoot with a

begging bowl, is a great teaching. First of all, as an omniscient,

or omnipotent being, there was not any real need for him to do

that. Secondly, even completely putting aside his omnipotence,

it was clearly not out of necessity that the Buddha walked

barefoot, and begged for alms in the streets because there were



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many kings and queens included among his patrons and

disciples.

We find this kind of teaching because Shākyamuni

Buddha is what we call the nirmāņikāya Buddha, meaning thereis a manifestation. There are all kinds of manifestations, in order

to liberate sentient beings and begging alms is yet another of

his manifestations to benefit sentient beings. So at that time,

there on the Vulture’s Peak, his method of benefiting sentient

beings was by dwelling in this so-called samādhi of profound

illumination.

Now just very loosely, the benefit of this samādhi, thismeditation; the power of this meditation is to actually cause

other people to understand the emptiness. Or at least, it makes

other people have the curiosity, with the curiosity of ‘happening

very soon.’ They say that profound illumination, the samādhi, is

a bit like chewing something sour, in front of people who know

the taste of sour. It makes the other person salivate in their

mouth. So this happened okay.

Instead of the Five Skandhas,

why not a Scientific Breakthrough?

The great Avalokiteshvara, the mahābodhisattva,

mahāsattva Avalokiteshvara, the noble Avalokiteshvara was

also practicing the profound prajna and he realized that all the

skandhas are empty of their nature. Now Shāriputra is actually a

Shrāvaka and the Shrāvakas don't have the power to

understand the great emptiness. Not only do they not have the

power, they are not really interested anyway. So at that time,

not out of his own power, not out of the Shāriputra's power but

by the power of the Buddha, by the blessings and power of this

profound illumination, this made Shāriputra ask this particular



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question to Avalokiteshvara. Now let's go back to what

Avalokiteshvara had seen. When bodhisattva mahāsattva

Avalokiteshvara was in his deep samādhi, what did he see?

He saw the five aggregates to be empty of nature.

Okay, the question is what is the big deal about this? I

mean, why didn't he see the big bang? The Buddha was there,

and some of the greatest people were there. Shākyamuni

Buddha was sitting there! There was Avalokiteshvara from the

Mahāyāna department, Shākyamuni Buddha from the Hinayānadepartment and then on top of that there were the demigods,

the great kings and the queens! They were all there and all they

could think about is the emptiness. Why didn't they think up

some amazing scientific breakthrough, at that time? They could

have invented some kind of software, or hardware to make us

live forever, I don't know, whatever.

Now you can hear my question. It is a question that is

very much related to why didn't they do something great,

instead of finding something like the five skandhas? Why not

find something like a scientific breakthrough? Now again that is

a question that comes from a longing for happiness, isn't it?

Basically it is a question of longing for a solution to this

problematic world. Science, technology, the economy, the

political system, we have all these things, and we think that we

need these things because it will give us the answers to certain

problems. So naturally, with all these great people present, we

think to ourselves, why didn't they think about something else,

like the big bang, instead of the five skandhas? But you know

what Mahāyāna buddhists are saying? They said, “This is the

answer.”

What is the big bang? With the five skandhas, as long as

you don't know their nature, what it does is: it causes the ego,



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and the ego is the culprit. This is why, the bodhisattva

mahāsattva, deep in meditation, with the help of the Buddha,

and with Shāriputra bugging him here – the great mahāsattva:

he's not thinking about science, he's not thinking abouttechnology, he's not thinking about some sort of political

system, but instead, he thinks: the five skandhas are empty by

nature. That is so important because if you don't know that you

have a problem with everything. The big bang doesn't come,

and nor does technology; there is none of this.

Explaining the Five Skandhas: going beyond

useful and useless

By the power of the Buddha, Shāriputra realized that

Avalokiteshvara had hold of a big solution, and he had to ask:

“How should a son or a daughter of noble

family train, who wishes to practice the profound

prajnaparamita?” And then the noble

Avalokiteshvara said, “Oh, Shāriputra, a son or

daughter of noble family who wishes to pracitice

the profound prajnaparamitra should see in this

way…”

He then gives us the answer, first in summary, then

slightly more elaborate, and then he really elaborated. First he

said:

The sons, and the daughters of noble family

must see the five skandhas to be empty of nature.



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Now that needs a little bit of discussion, because here,

obviously, Avalokiteshvara is not saying that we must bring in

some kind of a chainsaw or a bulldozer to wipe out the five

skandhas. We are not talking about mincing, or burning all of the skandhas and getting rid of them. We are not saying that at

all. We are not judging the five skandhas at all. We are not

putting them down as ‘these five useless things.’ Not only are

they actually not useful, they are also not useless. They do not

even exist. That is what they are saying. To be useful and to be

useless, remember I was telling you right from the beginning,

how outrageous it is? It's outrageous for people like who? Forpeople like us, who make three constant mistakes: looking at

our hand, thinking it is the same hand of yesterday, and just not

understanding why there are more wrinkles. It doesn't make

sense. You know, like constantly. For these kinds of people,

emptiness is shocking.

Questions Relating to the Five Skandhas

So if you have any questions, we will stop here for a

while and you can ask some questions.

S: You said, for the first point, the skandhas don't exist, ..

not useful or useful so…

A: Yes. That's something that we will have to discuss in

the next few days. Because we will have to define, what do we

mean by exist? But what we discussed earlier about the three

mistakes will help you a little bit. Basically, you know, for a

Mahāyāna person, they think that everything is just a label. It's

like this table. There are a few attributes gathered, and some

parts are gathered and to this we ascribe the label of table. If

you really search each part and component, you don't find



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anything that is essential, independent or existing to which you

can point to as: this is the base of the table. It's a difficult one.

Anyhow, it will help you to think more internally, instead of

externally.S: What are the skandhas?

A: The skandhas are the five aggregates: form, feeling,

perception, formation and consciousness. Again, you know how

I was talking about the table. There are the legs, nails, paint and

a rectangular board, all of which when put together, is

something that we call table. Mahāyāna people think, form,

feeling, perception, formation, and consciousness, when puttogether bring a label or a notion, a notion of me. It's really quite

ridiculous.

For instance, just before I came here, I had a heated

argument with an Indian. It was a heated, and a really

passionate argument. I was being a little bit provocative. I was

saying how the British are good. And he really didn't like that.

This person, he's so Indian, and so patriotic. He's so patriotic

about India. Then lastly, I said to him: “Look who created India?

It was the British. The label that you are so proud and patriotic

about, this idea that you can even, give up your life for the sake

of this great name, is something that was created by the

British.” It's a bit like that: the self, the idea, 'I' you know, ‘me’

my friend, my enemy, even the notion of my appearing here.

Especially if it is spiced up with certain characters like George

Bush, then this self becomes really, really truly existing. This is

what the Mahāyāna people are talking about here. It's just so

pathetic, because it does not even exist.

But you know it’s not easy. It’s easier to say than to do.

Like with the notion of India, where they sing songs about India;

they stand up and the Indian national anthem comes up. There's

this attachment and then there is even more than the word, 'I'

me. It's really difficult to know that it's just a label. Because over



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the years, and over the many lifetimes, there have been so

many things that are entangled together now. We are attached

to the notion of 'I' and it is because of that very strong feeling

about me, my country, my philosophy and my way of doingthings. It is very strong. So the feeling and the 'I' are entangled.

Remember, it is this abnormality. Again, that's how we are

becoming abnormal, by thinking that this 'I' truly exists. India is

a good example, because this Indian guy hates British, but loves

India, which is a concept that the British produced. That's how

human beings work.

S: Rinpoche, in such a ridiculous... (several wordsinaudible) is it worth us studying at our level.

A: Yeah, it can have the effect of making your comfort

zones become slightly dented because the outer most level of

comfort zone is vanity. And at least, by hearing some of this

information and by practicing it, this will dent the vanity. It’s not

merely something like a fixable denting. It’s more like

permanent damage. The resale value has completely gone

down. That's about all we can aim for: for some of us, anyway. If

you at least achieve success in making yourself completely lost,

if you have managed to make yourself have ‘no resale value’

that's a good spiritual practitioner. That's difficult though

because profit is quite important.

S: When you talk about the five skandhas being empty,

are they altogether empty, or is each one of them empty at

once? What does being empty mean?

A: I think, it means all of them, all together, one by one.

But to even speak of a limit, to speak of quantity, you will soon

realize that what we have made of the five skandhas is purely

hypothetical. Mahāyāna people don't believe in numbers,

because if form is emptiness, definitely, numbers were gone a

long time ago.



24

It's because of that you will hear the Mahāyāna scholars,

always saying that scientists are the most superstitious people

on this earth. Scientists believe in mathematics and

mathematics is completely hypothetical. The Mahāyāna people just cannot understand why two plus two has to be at least four.

I told you, didn't I? This text is a little beyond us, but that is good.

We should hear about these things.

Really, as I was saying right from the beginning, the

quintessence of Mahāyāna Buddhism has no information about

how Buddhists should perform the divorce ceremony, for

instance. Or how a Buddhist, should rule or judge. There is noneof that. Because they think that is such a big delusion.

One who Realizes Emptiness

S: What are the consequences for someone who realizes

emptiness?

A: For them? There are many answers for that. I

appreciate this question really. Because it's back to the

normality and non-normality. You know, the Mahāyāna people

think everything that we are doing is abnormal. Now we follow

their normality, right? But from the mundane, emotional,

deluded world's point of view, Mahāyāna normality is

completely abnormal. Likewise, from the ordinary point of view,

it is also this way for the Shrāvaka saying of self, wa nyempa

meaning a handful of earth, and a handful of gold has no

difference. The size of a palm and the size of space are no

different.

You know, at the beginning of the summer, I went to see

my father, and I spent quite a long time there. Now of course, I

received a lot of teachings that I've heard already before many

times. You know, Buddhists have nothing much to teach; they



25

actually say the same thing, again and again. But it was very

good for me to be there, because he made me realize that I have

become a sycophant, or a slave of the so-called rational world.

After all, being rational means being a sucker. So spend timewith these people, who not only think and talk, but who actually

live with this kind of absolute irrationality. Like for instance, the

lunch hour is usually around five in the evening, and dinner is

like one in the morning. And just as you are getting quite

comfortable with that pattern, it changes. So it's a little

irrational.

But you know what? Your question is quite interesting.What are the consequences? What is the definition of

consequences?

S: You base it on compassion.

A: Yeah, Yeah.

S: When you realize that everything is emptiness, all the

societies, the laws, there must somehow be a personal

consequence for you to realize. The compassion...

A: Let's leave the compassion for now, I will talk about

that but what do you mean by consequences?

S: I mean, two things. First of all, there is the idea that

you have to function in society. I know, lunch at one, dinner at

six but also know it doesn't have to be that way, so I can

manipulate it. It is only because it is empty that you can play

around with the thing.

A: mm, hmm. You are answering quite well.

S: There’s a way of understanding, in the Western world,

through the middle-ages, about the difference between the fool

and the proper fool. It's a whole thing. I see it like a circle and it’s

a huge difference between...

A: Yes. But you know, as long as you know that

everything is manipulate-able, you are free: but we don't think

that way.



26

There is another reason, why I asked you this question

about the definition of consequences. Usually, I don't know how

the word is used in general, but ‘consequences’ is meant to

mean you do something and you end up getting that. You aregetting an effect. But someone who realizes the emptiness,

doesn't do anything. His doing something also includes not

doing anything, by the way. So there are no consequences. This

is why people like Nagarjuna said, "I'm innocent." Really, do you

know why people like Chandrakirti are called consequentialists

in the Prasankiga-Madhyamika? Because they think that all of

you who believe in this idea of truly existing will have theconsequences, whereas me, Chandrakirti, I don't have

consequences because I don't believe in anything.

Now there is one important question you asked, where

does the compassion fit in here? Okay, when we talk about

compassion, usually we talk about some kind of a painful

emotional mind. It is sort of teary, and it is a touchy feely kind of

thing. But as I was saying right at the beginning, the very

understanding of the emptiness is the compassion. You see,

when you understand emptiness, you will have no arrogance. I

mean, how can you be arrogant? You are only arrogant if you

understand some part, and not all. The lack of arrogance is what

we call compassion. It's a much better word, this word

compassion. Compassion is a more beautiful word, and that's

why we use it and it works. Usually when we portray

compassion, we think of Avalokiteshvara's beautiful form. You

know, his eyes are slightly touched with tears. There is all of that.

People like to associate compassion with more of this soft stuff.

When you understand that the five skandhas do not exist

truly, then you also understand that the self does not exist truly.

When there is no self, there is no attachment to the self. Lack of

attachment to the self is compassion, is it not? So such kind of

person, actually works for people, tirelessly. Do you know why



27

there is this ability to work tirelessly? It is because they have no

goal. Someone who has a goal just ends up getting so tired,

because there is a finishing line. But I tell you, for someone who

understands emptiness, not only do they work tirelessly, butthey also don't rest, because there is no opposite of what is rest.

It's kind of a very, very tricky thing this one. We can only

talk about it but I must say, we are already quite fortunate to be

talking about it. There are so many other things to talk about.

We can talk about how there are sixty-four virgins waiting in

heaven and stuff like that. I personally think that this is much

more worthwhile, because sixty-four virgins is a big pain. That'svery dangerous.

Love is Emptiness, Emptiness is Love

S: Can one manipulate love?

A: I think so. Are you talking about the Heart Sūtra? Love

is emptiness. Emptiness is love. Emptiness is not other than love.

Love is not other than emptiness. That's what Avalokiteshvara

said, on Vulture’s Peak, about 2500 years ago. That's how he

handled the idea love. You know, he is also referred to as the

bodhisattva of love.

S: I have the feeling, when we have a difficult time, when

we know about me, myself and I: it's my house, my car, my

woman, my children, my success. I have to deal with this sticky

honey, I have to say, my sweet form, my beauty-less form, my

good feeling, and get the impression that they have good

perception about the diet, that they are getting clear

consciousness. So I think this author has them as the five

skandhas are empty...

A: What is your question? Are you saying that normal

people...



28

S: The question is what is there for our society, for our

economy, and what are the consequences if you really realize

the five skandhas are empty because then we go off.

A: No, no, we don't. We don't go off. Because if you dogo off, that means you don't understand the five skandhas are

emptiness. Emptiness is not a denial. It is just understanding

what it is. Nothing stops! You go on with your same hairdresser,

and the same grocery shopping, nothing stops. It is just that the

truth is realized. Actually if you keep on doing these mundane

things, it's even better, because then you are not trapped. These

things are not going to trap you anymore. They can't trap you.S: So it's a good protection to be aware.

A: Yes, very much. That's the only thing.

Dwelling in the Profound Samādhi of

Prajnaparamita Liberates you

So, the Noble Avalokiteshvara, the bodhisattva

mahasattva was dwelling in this profound samādhi of

prajnaparamita. And he saw the five skandhas to be empty of

nature.

I think we should think about the purpose of this

samādhi, the samādhi of prajnaparamita. Of course, we

obviously say it is for the purpose of liberation, for the sake of

enlightenment. But the term, this concept of enlightenment, is

so jaded. As soon as we talk about enlightenment, we imagine it

is something to do with what can happen, after twelve years of

practice, or a lifetime of practice. Now I am stressing this

because, when you think like that, then even the profound

teachings such as the Heart Sūtra, become like: ‘just another

religion’ or some kind of theistic approach. At the same time, to

be thinking of enlightenment as something you will obtain, after



29

a while, after a certain practice, is also a correct way of thinking.

It's not like it is an incorrect way of thinking or something. It can

be correct. That is a very human way of thinking and it is the

only way to think, I guess.But why dwell in this samādhi of prajnaparamita?

Because it liberates you. What does it liberate you from? The

hell realm. Actually, enlightenment is an experience of an

absence of paranoia. Right now, everything we are experiencing

is paranoia after paranoia. There is the paranoia of dwelling too

much in the rational world. There is the paranoia that is

produced out of our hope and fear, and reference. Having areference makes you feel you have to compete, or that you have

to refer to that reference. That's another paranoia. To always,

always be forgetting that the reference is only something that

your mind has produced. You look at something beautiful and it

is your mind that thinks this is beautiful. But then you think you

want to be like that . You want to be beautiful in the sense that

you have created.

So by dwelling on the profound prajnaparamita samādhi,

it releases you from this paranoia. It is to release you from these

inhibitions and hang ups. That’s difficult because many of these

inhibitions and hang-ups are also part of our comfort zone and

who would like to get rid of that? We are used to the inhibitions,

and the hang-ups that we have. Because there are these certain

areas that we are used to we are therefore quite comfortable

with them. To go against these things is too outrageous. Not

only is it too outrageous, it is also too irrational.

Buddhism Is a Path to Deconstruct the Ego

There is something important that we talked of

yesterday, which I should interpret slightly more: the issue of



30

why Avalokiteshvara and Shāriputra weren’t discussing

scientific things, breakthroughs, atoms, and mathematical

questions and all of that. I am just mentioning this because

some of you may think in that way. After all, this whole path,leads to the same thing, so why do we need the Heart Sūtra, for

instance. But you see, with things like atoms, all kind of things,

like the universe for instance, although it comes from intention

of making a better society, better mankind and all that, it is not

really going against the ego.

You can say, Buddhism, and the whole path of Buddhism

is a path to deconstruct the ego. It is a path to destroy yourself.That is the irony and the challenge of the Buddhist path,

because we have to destroy ourselves. Of course, this in itself is

not a good thing to do, at least not from a human, emotional

point of view. And then, while we talk about destroying

ourselves, we also talk about helping sentient beings and we

talk about a sense of responsibility. We talk about compassion

and we talk about achieving enlightenment. So then,

immediately, we think there is something, another self that

does all of this.

The Prajnaparamita:

It Pulls the Rug out from under you

I think if there is any singular path that is really

concerned with deconstructing the self, even without having the

name: prajnaparamita it is actually the quintessence of

Buddhism. When we talk about deconstructing the self, we are

not talking about some kind of affordable renunciation, like

living a simple life, living in a cave, deconstructing our jobs, and

deconstructing our family life. We are not only talking about

that kind of thing. What we are talking about is: there is nothing



31

to deconstruct. If that works, that's kind of frightening. If you

have something to deconstruct, it's slightly better still. Here we

have to learn there is nothing to deconstruct, and that's so

important.You know, the Buddhist concept of renunciation. When

it is initially taught to people, we hear of how we have to shave

our heads, live simply and all of that. Eventually, they will tell

you, there is nothing to renounce, and that is the quintessence

of renunciation. So the purpose of prajnaparamita is to

deconstruct your ‘self.’ Its purpose is to pull the rug out from

under you.That's the whole purpose. The rug is sort of the five

skandhas. But you see, again we are falling into a trap, because

it again makes you think that there is something on the rug. Of

course, you then also think that there is a rug. Here what we are

saying is: there is no rug. There is nothing on top of the rug and

therefore there is no pulling and that is the meaning of pulling

the rug out from under you. This is quite an important analysis,

if you want to understand the emptiness.

Discussing the meaning of:

“Form is Emptiness”

When you hear “form is emptiness” what does it tell you,

as a human being? Don’t tell me, as a jaded Buddhist.

S: There is no ability to discriminate. I know the

difference between nothing and a car.

A: Mm, hmm. What else? Emptiness, what is that?

S: What are we considering emptiness? I mean, is this a

vacuum or maybe it is clear of what I know of. Or maybe there is

something else there. What do you consider empty? I mean,

how can I know what emptiness is? It doesn't really have a

concept.



32

A: Okay. What is the emptiness?

S: Nothing.

A: What do you mean by that? I mean, when you say

'nothing' is it an absence? When you say 'everything' is it apresence?

S: Everything is codependent, lacking in inherent

existence.

A: That's a jaded Buddhist answer.

S: When I first came to Buddhism, it was really a pain for

me, feeling the emptiness. I was desperate and I didn't

understand the meaning. Slowly, I have come to say to myself,“Maybe I can get used to it.”

A: But when you hear the word ‘emptiness,’ what is the

first impression you have, even today?

S: Lack of anything. It is connected to quantum physics,

as in time and space.

A: Mm, hmm.

S: There is a box, which is empty, but still there is a box.

A: I keep on hearing negation. I keep on hearing form is

emptiness; I am not hearing emptiness is form.

S: Can emptiness exist without form?

A: Can emptiness exist?

S: Not exist. It's like form is essential somehow.

A: This is very philosophical now but it might help. You

know, in Mahāyāna Buddhism, emptiness is used and there are

many, many different terms and names. There is all this

terminology. One very interesting one is the emptiness, but

especially when we study Buddhist philosophy, more often than

not we don't use the word emptiness. Instead we use the word,

‘the great character’, ‘the great characteristic.’ It is the only

characteristic, the only definition. That's a very, very, very,

interesting approach, because when you study Buddhist

philosophy, you study the definitions of things. Now as for this



33

term definition, I don't know how it works in the German

language, what do you say?

S: (German word).

A: What's the meaning of that? What is the definition of definition? The characteristic of definition is that it should

identify a particular thing and only that thing, nothing else, isn't

it? Now according to the Buddhist philosophers, they think, all

the definitions that we human beings make, or construct are a

generalization. There is only one characteristic of the definition

that really cannot be changed: what else, but the emptiness.

The characteristic of everything is emptiness.You know, I think the challenge for you, in not

understanding emptiness, is always making a big gap between

the object and the subject. If you think the object exists

independently from the subject, then you will have a hard time

understanding the emptiness. Because as we spoke of

yesterday, then the Buddhist's concept of the emptiness, is a bit

like a bulldozer. You apply the emptiness meditation. When the

bodhisattva mahasattva Avalokiteshvara dwells in the

emptiness meditation, he is chopping down the trees, leveling

all the mountains, and drying up all the oceans. That's not the

right way to understand the emptiness.

But then, remember, when we look at our hand, we look

at in three ways. Of course, we don't call it a mistaken way, to us

it is the right way, and we see a hand. That hand. It is the same

hand as yesterday's hand. It is a hand, as in a hand, but not as in

parts. It is an independent hand. Now the thing is none of that is

an externally, independently existing object. It's all

manifestation of your mind. When you try to find anything that

is solid, or anything that is truly existing, you don't find

anything, but what is hand? There are so many components.

With each component, take for instance the blood, when you

divide it all up, there are cells, DNA and atoms and you again



34

lose any solid or truly existing entity that you can call 'blood.' So

then what do realize? We realize that this is just a label. It's

functioning just as a label. Okay, what does it tell you? It

destroys the paranoia.Let's say you have a really good car. What's the best car,

at the moment?

S: A Porsche.

A: Porsche, that's a label. It's a label. If you can accustom

yourself to thinking: “I am going to drive my labeled, moving

machine that is labeled as a Porsche. I am going to drive the

moving machine that has been advertised as the best car.” Thenit really pokes a hole in the net of paranoia. Definitely.

So that is what we are talking about here. Emptiness is a

very slippery subject. But as long as you know, and if you are not

caught up with this notion that the object exists independently,

and externally, you then have a very good chance to understand

the emptiness. Of course, you know, even the concept, even the

things we talked of yesterday, this normality. Why have we

become abnormal in the first place? It is when you think that the

label is not a label but a real thing. A label is just a name. It is a

symbol. It's not the real thing. We become abnormal when we

think the symbol is the real thing.

Culture preservation is one of the biggest movements of

label preservation, basically. And, there are all kinds of systems

that we have. Yet it is all basically a label. Buddhists are not

saying that you should renounce the real thing. Buddhists are

not saying you should not drink orange juice. Buddhists are only

saying that you should renounce thinking that the label of

‘orange juice’ is the orange juice. All this is trying to explain,

‘form is emptiness.’



35

Don’t try to look for the Emptiness

So Avalokiteshvara, dwelling in the profound samādhi of

prajnaparamita. Let's pretend that this is Vulture’s Peak; feel thevultures, circling up in the sky. The temperature is kind of

similar. Think that we are all Avalokiteshvara, and let's try to

dwell on the profound prajnaparamita. But don't try to look for

emptiness. Don't treat yourself as a fisherman with a fishing rod,

and emptiness as a rare fish. Because you don't have any bait.

There is no bait that the emptiness will want to have a little bit

of a taste of.So let's begin, initially with just watching the skandhas.

For instance, as we sit, we have a body. You have two hands,

and two legs and it’s amazing, you know. With these hands, how

did it happen that this is a hand? You can even invoke a little bit

of a manicure and a pedicure. But this is pre-manicure state, and

by the time you have a manicure, you are in a complete state of

abnormality, and so before the manicure, you just observe the

hand. Why is it a hand? How come it is a hand? How come you

have it? All kinds of ridiculous questions, you should ask. I think

the ridiculous questions are amazing, and you know, they are

like a life opener. And then, I'm sure, pain, itchiness, you know,

feeling discomfort, whatever. Watch the feeling. Basically,

watch your form, feeling, what else?

S: The suffering.

A: The suffering. Formation, consciousness. If you've got

ankle ache, a backache, or like a blissed out kind of feeling,

watch that. There are all kinds of perception: the perception of

noticing a sound, such as the humming of the air conditioner.

There is the unbearable awkwardness of the back of someone

else's head and the shape of your back. Everything is

perception. There is always this constant perception. Even this

irritating voice is perception. Then there is formation, such as:



36

“When is this going to end? Will there be a toilet break? Oh, I

forgot to call my home.” There are all kinds of activities and

agendas and especially, if you are an American – there are

issues. Then there is consciousness. To have a clearconsciousness, to have a dull consciousness, basically that very

fact there is a constant cognition.

Emptiness Meditation: Beyond pre-manicure,

post-manicure and mid-manicure

Okay, sitting. So there are many different ways to

approach an understanding of emptiness. You see, because of

the nature of emptiness; basically you can take any vehicle to

approach to that. You can elaborate in all kinds of ways to

approach that. But I think, as we talked yesterday, the safest,

most risk free way is sitting and to watch, basically just to

watch. You watch your form, feeling and all the rest. But when I

say watch that means a lot. That can stretch from the

Theravada tradition, all the way to the atiyoga, to the

mahāsandhi tradition. Because when we say watch, we are not

necessarily saying you should involve. We are not necessarily

saying that you should engross. We are not necessarily saying

you should be doing any judgment. You simply, observe.

Simply, look at that. Hear the sound, do not listen. Because if

you are making a judgment, then that is post-manicure, or mid-

manicure. But it is more likely post-manicure, I think.

When we do emptiness meditation, it should be beyond

pre-manicure, post-manicure and mid-manicure. Simply look at

the hand. Okay, the question is what is the big deal? The big

deal is when you simply look, you become less and less honey-

like. You don't get sticky, and nothing sticks to you. What will

that do? You become less and less manipulate-able. You rely



37

less and less on those comfort zones and you become less and

less abnormal, I guess. But at the same time, you become more

and more irrational. Am I talking in a very coded language? Am I

confusing you totally, here?

Form: shape, color, size, quantity, and quality

So when Shāriputra asked Avalokiteshvara how should

one approach to prajnaparamita? Avalokiteshvara's answer is by

seeing the skandhas as emptiness. To know they are empty of an independently or externally existing nature. To see the five

skandhas as a mere label. To see the five skandhas as an

interdependent phenomena, that was the summary of his

answer. And then he elaborated, "Form is emptiness."

What we are talking about is shape, color, size, quantity,

and quality. We are talking about a body, in the sense of

something united. Of course, we are especially talking about

this form that we have. The external form, of course, is included,

like citizenship, nationality, government, blue chips, and the

Dow Jones and it's a form that people get so paranoid about.

The label given, you understand.

Now of course, apart from those things, something more

important is the very form that you have. It is quite important,

diet, gym, yoga, ab-building, six pack, you know, to become a

kind of a Schwarzenegger-like form. We are not talking in the

way of only form is emptiness; it actually includes a lot of things.

It includes Jennifer Lopez, it includes Arnold Schwarzenegger,

and of course, above all, you – we are also included. And me,

and my, are very much included. The weighing device is

included, and so are all those things, related to form, basically.

You can see it’s all your paranoia, isn't it? Like for instance, I

have a paranoia that I'll never even find it hard – never becoming



38

like a Schwarzenegger. Likewise, I am sure some of you have a

certain paranoia about becoming deformed.

This paranoia is good for business though, especially for

nutritionists, and yoga masters and all of that. And for facialtreatments, it's really good, good for business.

Avalokiteshvara's finding on the other hand is not so good for

business. So can you see there is this form that we imagine we

are trying to have, or that we think we have and don't want to

lose. Or we think we have it but it is not that perfect so we then

think let's make it perfect. All of these things happen when you

don't know that form is just a label. It's just your projection.Take for instance the concept of beauty; I think in the oil

paintings of the past, they thought that being quite fleshy was

beautiful. You know, in two hundred years time, our great, great,

great, great grandchildren will be looking at our pictures,

thinking how we look like skeletons. And here we are being

quite proud of being like that.

Form exists as a mirage and therefore

“Emptiness is Form”

You see, form is emptiness, and beauty is just a label.

Therefore "Form is emptiness," what is it that we are saying? Is

there no such thing as beauty, or ugliness? Is there no such thing

as big, or small? All of that? No, no, no, they all exist. They

function, they manifest. Small exists compared to something

bigger. Something that is very small then changes to something

big when it is compared to something that is smaller than it.

Everything exists. Beauty exists, ugliness exists but not as

independent form, it is an interdependent reality. It exists as an

illusion, as a mirage, and therefore emptiness is form. We are



39

not talking about negating. There is no negation at all. In fact,

we are very much, making things very comfortable.

Let's say you don't look like a Schwarzenegger. And let's

say that you have been brooding about it for the past 30 years,and suddenly you hear the second verse, "Emptiness is form."

Then you realize there are actually millions of people who like

you because you do not look like Schwarzenegger. It's amazing,

isn't it? There are people who like you because you are not what

you want to be. Or there are people who don't like you because

you become who you want to be. It's just amazing that some

people are turned on by a certain size or turned off by a certainsize. So because of lack of information on the second verse,

that's why, again the business is good. It is especially good for

some people, like for penile enlargement or implant specialists.

So Avalokiteshvara's information can be quite beneficial for

these people. It's amazing. The lack of a given size for a certain

part of your body is the very reason why millions of people like

you. And all along, here you are thinking that is your downfall.

So that's the emptiness is form. It's very difficult to explain. I

have to talk like this, you know. It's a tough subject this one.

It is not as if “Form is Real” and it Suddenly

becomes Emptiness

Well, the next two are kind of easy to understand.

“Emptiness is no other than form.” So then we think, okay form

is like the noun, and emptiness is like an adjective of that noun.

You know, like form is one thing and then the emptiness is

another thing. It's like two separate entities. Actually, this is

quite an important subject again.

S: What was the noun?



40

A: Okay, take for instance a flower that is red. There are

two entities here, the flower and the redness. They are kind of

two separate things, aren't they? So we might think, when we

say form is emptiness, emptiness is form, then there is a danger,we think we have to apply the emptiness over the form. But that

is not it. We don't apply. Emptiness is not other than form. They

are not two separate entities. If they become separate entities,

again, business will become good. Because that means there is

an ultimate decision that is universally agreed upon. It means

that if you have Arnold Schwarzenegger's body, you will be

universally admired. It's not like that. There is no universalagreement - on anything! Nothing!

This is why, when a Buddhist prays, "May all sentient

beings be happy" that happiness should always be based on the

wisdom. Otherwise how are you as a Mahāyāna Buddhist, going

to cater to the happiness of different people? The long life of

Saddam Hussein, is an unhappiness for George Bush. The fact

that there are no chemical weapons is bad news for people like

Donald Rumsfeld. So when we Buddhists say, "May all sentient

beings, like Donald Rumsfeld be happy," does that mean as a

Buddhist we go and plant some weapons everywhere? That will

contradict, Saddam Hussein's wish. So it’s all like that.

Happiness, unhappiness, everything should be based on the

wisdom.

Emptiness is no other than form. Form is no

other than emptiness.

It's not as if the beginning part of the form is real and

then it slowly becomes emptiness. The moment that a concept

emerges and forms, it is emptiness.



41

Form is a bit like a Hideout and Feeling is the

Moody Receptionist

In the same way, feeling is emptiness, emptiness isfeeling, emptiness is no other than feeling, feeling is no other

than the emptiness. Again, feeling. Now that is one big

phenomena in our life. For a lot of people actually, feeling is

probably, the most up front agent of the five skandhas. It's like a

receptionist. It is a kind of moody receptionist. It's really bad,

when you go to an office building and you face a moody

receptionist. How would you feel facing this short temperedness?Again, mind you, there are other people who have this

completely, left wing, bleeding heart, liberal kind of feeling.

Like you know, there are people who have no doubts, or

no second thoughts in joining empty war protests, and carrying

a banner such as 'no blood for oil.' Yet after the protest, you will

drive your car, and there you use your oil. Though they are quite

sweet; actually, they are quite sweet. Then there are politically

correct people, who are really so much into politically correct

things. There are people who are caught up with the concept of

doing the right thing: the people whom the Mahāyāna thinks of

as having idiot compassion.

So there are many different kinds of feelings. There are

so many different kinds of feelings that we have. Feeling

changes all the time. But anyway, feeling really plays an

important role.

Again, if you don't know the feeling is emptiness, it is

good for business. Most of the cards, like for instance Happy

Birthday Cards, 25th Anniversary Cards, or a card to say ‘Sorry;’

all of these things work. It works because we don't know what

these guys have discussed. These guys they think feeling is

completely pathetic. There is a reason you feel good now, but



42

you cannot say, “this same reason will always make me feel

good.” In the future, the same reason will make you feel bad.

So feeling is impermanent. It is not independent; it's

dependent. And feeling is made out of a lot of components. Andas for the components, some of the components make you feel

good. Let's say they are very strange component, everything

from a standard heart shaped bed, to a handcuff. All are

components to make you feel good. It's really amazing.

Amongst these things that turn us on, among the components,

the cause and conditions that turn us on, if we could film all of

that, every year we would win a prize in the Cannes Film Festival.But only in Cannes, because the French like this kind of thing.

French components, that turns them on. There is that whole

phenomena, and they like it. And it's called sophistication.

Perception as your Translator

Then there is perception. It is another important part of

us. Form is a bit like a hideout and feeling is the moody

receptionist, remember. As for the perception, it like having a

very ambitious and a bad lawyer as your translator.

You don't speak the language, right? So you need a

translator. If the translator doesn't have any other job, that's

fine, but when the translator happens to be a bad and ambitious

lawyer, it is very dangerous. The first impression this lawyer, this

perception encounters, will determine the rest of the

phenomena that you are going to go through. It is the first

perception. You look at someone, and your perception about

this someone, good or bad, whatever it is, that is going to

determine how you relate with this person. Not only your

perception with people, but with situations as well and your

perception about yourself, on that particular day, in that



43

particular moment, will also make you decide things. When you

wake up, if your translator is in a bad mood, there is a tendency

to ruin your whole day.

But you see, this is also impermanent. You wake up in abad mood, so you perceive things in a really bad way, and

logically you have the right to be in a bad mood. You really see

things in a bad way and then you receive a call from I don't know,

from a long lost friend or something, and then everything

changes! Your mood, the way you perceive things or do not

perceive things, all this changes. When you got up in the

morning, you thought your coffee had too much sugar, but afterreceiving the call, you drank the same coffee and didn't notice.

Perception. Perception is emptiness; it doesn't stay. In the same

way, emptiness is perception.

Karmic Formation:

the Working Guy, your Staff

Next is formation. This is a real working guy, like a

machine. So you have a castle as form, feeling as a receptionist,

perception as a translator, and now you have karmic formation

as your staff. Busy. You will be quick to respond, to reply. It's like

when you respond to things, with a good intention, and with

what we call virtuous actions. Or when you respond with not

such a good intention, with bad karma of non-virtuous actions,

or with an indifferent kind of motivation. There is a simple sort

of a reflex or some kind of automatic response to whatever

situation is happening. Basically you function or there is an

action produced as a response to a situation. So that's a big part

of you again. Formation is a big part of you. It is like putting on

some lipstick. You see, these things are all interrelated, like for

instance, doing push ups, especially if you are an Arnold



44

Schwarzenegger oriented person. Or your eating meat only, if

you want to build your muscles. Actions, you immediately,

perform a certain action. So action is a big part of you. In fact,

that is one big part of you, by which other people will judge andvalue who you are. That's how they judge you, by your action.

What do they call it? “Actions speak louder than words.” It's a

very big part of you. But actions are impermanent, not

independent, and actions are made out of a lot of components,

therefore actions, or formation is emptiness; emptiness is

formation and so on.

Consciousness: the Man behind the Desk

Consciousness, this is the boss now. This is the man

behind the desk. The one who is responsible for everything,

even though he doesn't think so. He always feels it's all because

of form, perception and feeling but we know that without him,

the whole company no longer exists. Not directly, but indirectly

he is responsible. He is very much responsible.

Basically, this is your mind. I mean, among the five

skandhas, even as we discuss this, we can sort of come to an

agreement that form is not the real me. I think the first thing we

can get rid of is the form. And the second is perhaps the actions.

We can say, okay my action cannot be me. It could be just a

reflexive response. And then, as for the feeling, it is a little

difficult but okay, maybe that is not the real me. After that,

perception can also be regarded as not the real me. But when it

comes to consciousness, if that is not ‘me’ then who am I?

So it's the biggest part of you. But here again, we are not

consciousness. What is consciousness? Being conscious of

something, and as we are conscious of something that is

interdependent. It's impermanent because you are not always



45

conscious of that thing. Consciousness is also made out of a lot

of components, and some of them are even external

components, such as the object ‘table’ and your being conscious

of a table. Therefore, consciousness is emptiness and so forth.

Each time we Speak, it is a Generalization

Now Avalokiteshvara, elaborates slightly more:

Thus, Shāriputra, all dharmas areemptiness.

Within the five aggregates basically, all phenomena are

included. With all these phenomena, there is no absolute,

unbreakable, unchangeable definition or characteristic. A

defining characteristic of a table, may be: ‘something that can

hold the cup’ and ‘something that can be used as a desk’ and all

that. But if it has another component pasted onto its joint, then

the very idea of the table is deconstructed and a new

phenomena, such as a chair will come out of this. So therefore,

there is no absolute, unchangeable characteristic, and within

any of the phenomena we discuss, all is generalized. It's quite

important and it’s quite a big statement.

For Mahāyāna people, every time we speak, each time

we utter a word, it is called generalization. You might be the

most perfect practitioner of politically correctness, but in reality

you are not, because you are generalizing everything. That is

the only way we communicate in the human world. Like if we

say for instance that Germans drink a lot of beer, I suppose it’s a

generalization. But it would be tyrannical to say, Herman Hess

drinks a lot of beer. You cannot single out because otherwise,

there would be no conversation any longer. So it's much more



46

interesting to say, all German's drink a lot of beer. It is nicer to

say, and it will promote tourism, too.

So generalization is the only language that we have and

we should speak it because we have no choice. The English havebad food. Asians are racist. Tibetans are narrow-minded.

Muslims are fanatics. Buddhists are peace loving. Now that last

one is a very big generalization. But generalization is the only

way to work.

We are not Negating that Form Exists

S: Could you say more about "Emptiness is form.”?

A: "Emptiness is form?" First of all, when we say form is

emptiness, we are not negating that form exists. It is two

different things, form is emptiness, and form does not exist. It's

two different things. When the bodhisattva realizes that form is

emptiness, it's not like a sunflower when the sun goes down; it

not as though it sort of stands down. It's not as though when a

bodhisattva realizes emptiness, everything is going to sort of

dismantle and disappear into pieces. It is not like that.

Everything functions! The coffee machine works, or at least it

works in the sense of not working. Whether the coffee machine

works, or whether my coffee machine doesn't work, in both

instances that's also ‘working,’ you understand? Because it is all

a part of the coffee machine phenomena. Today, it is not

working; but all of this will still go on.

If you are having a nightmare of sleeping with an

elephant, then you would really try to wake up, or someone else

might really try to wake you up. Perhaps, someone chases away

the elephant, and all of a sudden, the elephant goes, so you are

relieved. But you see, the elephant is emptiness; it’s a dream.

From the very first moment that you dreamt the elephant, the



47

elephant was emptiness. So there is no going of the elephant,

and also there is no coming of elephant. The second part is very,

very important for the Mahāyāna.

When we say ‘table is just a label’ or ‘table is emptiness’that is not saying that ‘table as table’ is going to stop

functioning. It still functions, but only as a label. Now if you

know that , what's the benefit? Your grip towards the table is

slightly loosened, because you know it is just a label. Once your

grip is loosening, you are slightly normal. That's the whole point.

S: …Component?

A: Each component, each part is again, another label. Allthe way up to the smallest atom, and even the smallest atom is

also a mind created label.

S: I guess I wanted to know, what is the cause that makes

us always create labels?

A: What's the cause? Oh, that's a very good question.

There are many reasons. Comfort zone is one big one,

because…

S: Like with children, they don't seem to have that

comfort zone, way of habit,

A: Yes.



48

We all have Renunciation Mind

but do it in Slow Motion

S: ... and sometimes we have to create labels to call theirparents.

A: Yes, it’s a very good example. Actually with many

children, especially with very, very young children, their way of

looking at a painting is one of the most well used examples

coming from the great meditation masters. That is how we

should be looking at things. But you know, just to give you one

example. Like when we talk about renunciation mind forinstance, these teachings on renunciation are not really a

religious technique that you have to implement on yourself in

order to achieve enlightenment. Everyone, you, me, all of us, we

all have renunciation mind – it is just that we do it in very slow

motion.

When we were children, the sandcastle was so important,

you understand. Our toys were so important. You were so

attached to these things, even to the point of having to hear

your parents say, "Enough." Once you have become a teenager,

nobody has to say, "Enough," you will renounce those things

without any drama. Then the sandcastle is replaced with a video

machine, video games, roller blades, a skateboard and all of that.

Then after a while, all of that is again renounced. Nobody has to

say anything and there is no need to do a meditation. It is all

automatically, renounced. Then it is replaced with fast cars,

nightclubs, or something else like that, or it’s replaced with

things like job, status, relationship, and all of that. By the time

you are about seventy or eighty, you know, the relationship,

again, nobody has to say ‘this is useless,’ you automatically

renounce it. Then that begins to get replaced by other things,

such as tablecloths, tea sets or saltshakers. And that's it. That's

the end of our life. The saltshaker.



49

So all that we Buddhists are saying is: “What a waste of

time. Why can't we speed it up?” Okay, how about four years

for the sandcastle, two years for the roller blades, another year

for the fast car, and since the tablecloth is not that interesting, just half a year for the tablecloth. Half a year. And then you do

something interesting. But you know, it’s back to the comfort

zone. Sandcastles, as much as we think these are so useless,

they are comfort zones for the kids. Some parents even have to

pay a high price for this. They have to fly their children all the

way to Hawaii to build their sandcastles. As if to say, your

neighboring sandpit is not good enough. After that, I don't knowwhat we can do about saltshaker.

We have to Learn and Accept

We are Cookable

S: She has a question about compassion, and she has

heard that in order to love others it is important to love oneself

first. How does it work?

A: Based on this teaching?

S: This question she has in mind since...

A: Okay. Loving oneself is very important but loving

oneself with wisdom is even more important. You see, when we

say loving oneself, we are talking about confidence. Confidence

is what we call loving oneself. If you have confidence, then you

are not insecure, right? So how do we develop this confidence?

We have to accept, we have to learn and accept that we are

cookable. That's it. Know that we are changeable and that we

are manipulate-able. This is a very, very, very important piece of

information.

With most people who don't love themselves, they hate

themselves, because they believe that they are stuck with a



50

certain problem. There is this idea that they are not washable,

or that they are not cookable. So basically, you are stuck. Then

they hate themselves for that. It is a bit strange though – why

should they hate themselves for that? Because logicallyspeaking, if they really think that they are stuck, there is no

reason to hate. Even the fact that you hate yourself for being

something, means that you are referring to a reference. It is like

you are referring to something good, and then you want to

become like that. Now, in wanting to become like that there is

this fundamental aspect of, “I can be like that.” But you see, the

thing is in so many situations, “I” will never have a chance to belike that. Even so, you know that you can become like that and

that's the frustration part.

Purifiable. Cookable. Washable. When you know that,

then that is loving yourself. That's how I interpret it.

There is no Emptiness to Meditate on

S: It seems to me, basically I am able to experience this

but how can I know I am really experiencing emptiness, and not

that I have a concept of it?

A: Oh, yes. That's a very important question. Of course,

the real answer has to come from your instructor. Someone has

to lead you. Then they will tell you, what is happening and all of

that. But anyway, theoretically, I can answer you with

something. As long as there is a view to look at, you still haven't

got it. As long as you have an emptiness to meditate upon, it

means that you still haven't got it. That's the theoretical answer.

It's not that I made this up. It is the standard answer. It is very

important. The Buddha, who went beyond all the views, this is

how he addressed it.



51

The Three Characteristics of No Birth: beginning,

middle and end

Okay, now for the next. Makyepa – no birth. No birth,this is a very important one. What is the German word for

existence? Existence, what does that mean? Is it something to

do with having an identity?

S: (Discussion in German) We think that it could be that

it stands by itself or out of itself.

A: Good. All these are good. Anyway, broadly speaking,

the Buddhist definition of existence is something that has thecharacteristic of birth, of the beginning, death, the end, and the

middle, dwelling.

So now we analyze that. There are these three

characteristics: the beginning, the middle and the end. What is

most important, for now is the beginning. Everybody is

interested in the beginning. There is the origin, our nationality,

our birth date, DNA, and everything. Birth is so important.

Genesis, for most religious people, genesis is so important. Now

you see, for the Mahāyāna, since everything is emptiness, even

the very concept of genesis or the birth; that too is emptiness.

Therefore, there is no such thing as a primordial birth, or the

primordial creator of birth. There is no beginning. What it is

meaning is: there is no birth. If there is no birth, there is no

cessation.

S:(question inaudible)

A: Yes. We are never negating. Did I negate table as a

label? No. Likewise, I am not negating beginning as a label. But

for religious people and for the theoreticians, they believe in a

real beginning. There is this belief in genesis, "In the

beginning..." so and so came to this earth. That kind of thing is

unacceptable. For us, here in the Mahāyāna, beginning only



52

exists as an interdependence. In order for us to qualify this as a

beginning, we need the two other components, which are the

end and the middle. So it is the same thing as the example of

the hand. Basically, there is no such thing as an independentphenomena called beginning. Time, there is no time: ultimate

time. Likewise, there is no end: independent end. If I take away

the four legs of this table, then that is the beginning of one

phenomena, and the end of another phenomena. That is the

end of the phenomena of the table and the beginning of

another phenomena, maybe a tray. Independent from moving

the four legs, one cannot bring in the phenomena called ‘end.’Basically, the end is usually referred to as the dismantling of a

few components.

You see, this is quite important. Take for instance death.

This death that we are so afraid of, again we fear a label, this

thing called death. What is really happening is we are afraid of

losing some of our comfort zones, such as tablecloths. The

death that we are so fearful over, if you really meditate and

really sit as we have been sitting, you will realize it’s like waking

up from a dream. It's the end of one phenomena, but the

beginning of another phenomena. But of course, it is not that

easy because for us, we have been so doomed by our passion,

aggression, and attachment that we have now produced our self

into a gross form. There is this body, sickness and then there are

breathing problems and all of that. And that makes death, much

more real.

Just think, if you were to watch a horror film without the

sound, you would not be afraid. It's a bit similar to death. If you

really meditate, and sit and sit, then you can switch off; then

you are turning down the volume, muting the sound. Then it is

really nothing. But if your paranoia and your abnormality

catches you, then in the horror movie, the camera angle, and

the sound or no sound, the silence, the special effects hypes up



53

everything. And then you are really afraid. So this is why

clinging, the grip is not good.

It is like we are all falling from a cliff and have managed

to grab hold of one very, very weak piece of grass. It is about tobreak away, and you are so paranoid that you are not even

looking down. If you are not that paranoid, then perhaps you

look and see the fall is maybe only six inches. It is not so much of

a cliff. But that is easier said than done.

Emotions are also Conditioned

No impurity and no purity, this is a very big statement of

Mahāyāna Buddhism. I mean, let us forget about other religions,

but even within Buddhism, there are not so many schools that

talk about such things. It is a very big statement. This seemingly,

stubborn, permanently, and sort of realistic living negativity

that we have: it is seemingly very, very solid. Yet it is only

seemingly so, because it is again just another label. Jealousy,

pride, anger – all of these emotions are conditioned, just like in

the example of the table. There are four legs put together, with

one board and it becomes a table. Just like that, aggression,

jealousy, all of this, there are a few components put together,

and then there is jealousy. There are a few components put

together, and then there is anger. But again, it is easier to say

than to actually practice.

For us, we rely so much on the comfort zones that when

the negative emotion comes, we will be so surprised to have

such a rage inside of us. You know, even as you are ready to stab

your husband, or something like that, right then and there, you

still think, “now this is real,” and it is. I mean it feels real. It

causes your body to shake; you lose sleep, and lose your taste

for eating sausages. All the time you are forgetting how this is



54

actually a phenomena; it's a label. It's a phenomena that's made

out of a few components. Each component within itself is

interdependent, and impermanent, and thus, in Mahāyāna

Buddhism, ultimately, there is no negativity.Jealousy is emptiness, emptiness is jealousy, emptiness

is not other than jealousy, jealousy is not other than emptiness.

Since there are no defilements, there is no such thing as

purification of the defilements. Like when you are practicing lots

and lots of meditation, and getting rid of the defilements, you

are dismantling a few components. Or you are gathering a few

other components, which is so called purification. There is noreal defilement that you get rid of. So likewise, there is no

defilement to be reduced, and there is no defilement that gets

reduced. There is no truly existing compassion, omniscience, or

all the other kinds of enlightenment qualities that increase.

These four statements are very powerful statements.

It is these statements that have been taught again and

again by great masters like Chandrakirti. My favorite quotation

from him is one where he says, "Those who are unwise, they do

bad things and they go to hell" and then he said, "those who are

unwise, they do good and they go to heaven." Notice that we

are still talking about ‘unwise.’ Then he said, "Those who are

wise, they go beyond good and bad actions and then they reach

nirvana." It's like peeling the onion. Not to peel the onion is

unwise, and likewise to peel the onion and think that there must

be something there is also unwise, and so you have to go

beyond all that.

S: Does that mean that nirvana is just a symbol or a label?

A: I think that is what he is going to say very soon. Lam

me, ye she me, tob pa me... He says that. But it is not a negation.

Enlightenment is emptiness, emptiness is enlightenment.

Always.



55

Not Knowing the Mirage is a Mirage, it can

always be Misunderstood as Water

We should talk about the concept of truth. The truly

existing. What's the truth in German? What does that mean?

What is the definition?

Can't be wrong? And then? Does it have the connotation

of unchanging?

S: (discussion in German)

A: So German truth is kind of flexible? But when you say:‘this is truth’ ‘this is genuine’ ‘this is real’ if it doesn't have this

unchanging aspect, how do you measure the truth? Of course,

ordinary people don't really think like that. I mean, when looking

at this same river that we saw last year, we think, “This is the

river that I saw then” and we think that's the truth. But if you

analyze this a little bit, you will start to think about how you

define the truth. How do you measure it? I think that the ‘truth’

should have a little bit of a connotation of unchanging. It is kind

of independent also. There is that aspect of it having its own

strength to remain, without depending on anything else.

I am bringing this up because, it is part of the reason

why, basically the teachings on emptiness or the meditation of

the path of emptiness is going against this clinging to

something that is truly existent. That's the purpose. It is not the

appearance at all. The appearance is innocent. Enlightenment is

not defined as if to say that when you reach the state of

enlightenment, things change. You know, it is not as though all

these appearance change, externally. It is just that internally you

change, so I guess externally it also changes. Until the mirage is

known as a mirage, it can always be misunderstood as water,

especially when you are hot and thirsty in the desert. You really

think of that as water, as true, and real water. You don't think in



56

the way of: “It's water at this minute, but within the next minute

or so it might change, so I had better run fast.” You don't think

like that.

When you believe that something is real, you think interms of an unchanging and a fundamental nature. But let's say,

that very moment when someone tells you that it is just a

mirage, something changes but the appearance, the mirage

doesn't go. The water, this seemingly water-like stuff, just

doesn't go. Of course, it doesn't disappear. But your attitude

towards this phenomena has changed. You don't think that it is

real water! So your attitude towards it has changed. Basicallyyou are liberated from the delusion that this is real water . That's

the delusion, because it is not real water. What has happened is

you have been liberated from that delusion. That is nirvana, and

that is enlightenment. It is easy enough to discuss, when we use

analogies like mirage and all that. But it is very difficult as soon

as you start talking about our bank accounts, or the brain tumor

that is inside our head. Or even, when it comes to the

Schwartzenegger. It is very difficult to accept these things are

not real.

With Direct Cognition there is No Interpreter between

you and the Experience

It's very difficult because for ordinary people like us, this

unchanging, fundamental nature is the way we measure

something as real and genuine. You know, how we measure?

We think we have so-called direct cognition, because if you

touch the hot frying pan, it burns. If you spend too much money,

your bank balance will suffer. There are so many things like that.

I mean, if someone gypped, abandoned, or rejected you, you

would get hurt. Direct cognition, there is no need to use

inferential logic for this kind of thing. It's so real. If you don't eat,



57

you will get hungry. What I am trying to say is, all of that, just

forces you to think that what you are experiencing is real. And it

takes so much wisdom and merit to understand, and to break

through that. But, it is not that we have to break through theexternal object so much. And at least, we can begin to learn

about this so-called direct cognition.

To have complete direct cognition, now that is

something that needs to be disputed. Is this a direct cognition?

Now that's the challenge. Really, it is a challenge, because as I

said, as soon as someone rejects you, again you get hurt. It's not

that we are imagining that we are hurt. It's not that whensomeone rejects you, it's a hallucination. It's happened.

So it all comes down to this analysis of whether this is a

direct cognition or not. If you perceive something with your

mind, without any interference in between, that is what we call

direct cognition. There is no interpreter in between you and the

experience. So that is what we call direct cognition. Anything

that is cognized directly, now that makes the experience or the

phenomena real, so called truly, truth, true phenomena, and not

fake, because it is a direct cognition. It's cognized directly. It is

the same thing as what we talked yesterday and the day before.

Okay, but you know, the Mahāyāna Buddhist, they think,

all the way from now, until the last minute, up until the last

moment of the tenth bhumi bodhisattva, we don't have a direct

cognition. Every time we relate to an experience or a

phenomena, there are many, many, many, interpreters, and

many, many different, language experts, interpreting this.

Chiefly, there is pride, jealousy, anger, passion, and ignorance:

the five great translators. Hope and fear, are two other great

translators. The moment we think of something, the moment

we experience something, it's filtered. Each and every fact that

we find, we find it through indirect cognition. Just image

yourself wearing six layers of sunglasses, purple, blue, yellow,



58

green, and so on. And then, when you look at Mount Everest

you see it as gray or rainbow colored. That perception is wrong

because there is a filter between you and Mount Everest. So this

is how the Mahāyāna people think.Every fact that we have found is not real. Here we are

talking about the same thing, emptiness. It is empty of what?

Empty of these facts that you have found through the five

interpreters. It is easy to say, but it is very difficult to practice

this one. Especially when the bank account goes down, after all

that's real .

But if you really analyze this, in fact, much of our fear isactually a great hallucination, like inflation. Or just all of this,

especially the financial dramas, I don't have much experience,

but I can see it is one of the most sophisticated hallucinations.

Because we are educated to think that we don't have enough. I

mean, if there is no bank, then there is no phenomena of bank

balance, and there is no phenomena of credits. So you know

what I am saying, much of this phenomena is actually again,

created from a certain system that comes from all kinds of

paranoia. But it's too late, we are already in the system, I tell

you. As for insurance, that is the most amazing hallucination; it's

the greatest hallucination. It is like taking advantage of people's

fear and insecurity basically. Nothing can be insured, ultimately,

right? But it is always good to be insured. One feels good about

it, if one is insured.

But again, even being rejected by someone, I've seen

many people going through rejection, or at least that's what

they think is happening to them. But who rejects whom? Both

sides are waiting, right? Actually, they can't stand each other,

they want to finish with it, but somebody has to say so first.

Whoever has the first word is going to be stigmatized forever.

They are the culprit. You see how there is so much indirect

perception here. And also there are some people who think they



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are not worthy, or that they are being rejected, but then at the

same time, the person whom one thinks has done the rejecting,

this person actually thinks that he got rejected. But having all

this information, won't help you so much, because the very nexttime a new romance starts, you will think: “This is it. This is

special.” If you happen to be Buddhist, you might even add the

Buddhist touch. There is the soul mate idea, and stuff like that,

isn't there? Then you will go through a whole other experience

again, I tell you. We don't learn; that's how our life is. We don't

learn. But that's okay because this is what we call fun anyhow.

You know how we were talking about abnormality?What makes you abnormal? It is when you look at things with six

or seven translators in between. Actually, surprisingly enough if

you sit and watch the skandhas, of course, you may not really

experience direct perception, the absolute direct perception but

you will go really close to it. That's why sitting and meditation is

just so important, because it really, cancels out, many, many

interpreters between you and the object. You and the object

become quite close. You can almost feel the aura of the object.

It is sort of a blessing you know, because it is quite close.

S: Could you say something about dhatu?

A: Dhatu is like a dimension. It's like an element, a

dimension or a system. Sometimes, it is also referred to as

universe, which is also a dimension.

Happiness comes out of Realizing

that there is no Independent Happiness

Anyhow, the reason I was talking about truly existing is it

is something you should really think about. How do we define

truth? You see, in the Mahāyāna, everything is interdependent.

If something is interdependent, you can never, ever say, “This is



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the real one.” You see, it's interdependent, so in the next

instant, it will change. It's like the weather. You can never say

this is the real English weather, or the true European weather.

Actually, most of our phenomena of truly existing is a bit likethat weather forecast that we see on every news channel. I

cannot understand why people watch the weather channels,

because it's so interdependent. How can you say, today it is

going to be sunny so you don't have to take an umbrella or any

suntan lotion. You can only do a guess job. It's a guess job, isn't

it? Obviously, it is because every second is changing. After

hearing the weather forecast we believe it, so we go naked andthen suddenly, it rains on us. It's exactly like this and right now,

as we are looking at each other, even now, everything is a guess

job. You are kind of guessing that there is somebody sitting up

there. You kind of guess that you don't really understand what

he's talking about. It's all a guess job. What is the definition of

guessing?

S: Well it's a probability of experience...

A: Yeah. Can you say this in German?

S: Nein.

A: Interdependent reality is what the Mahāyāna teaches

you. It's really important, I am glad that you are hearing all of

this. This is the fundamental Buddhism. If you accept

interdependent reality, then you are a follower of the Buddha.

You must let people hear this interdependent reality. Because

this brings you happiness, and do you know why? It is because

most of the unhappiness comes out of believing that there is a

happiness, which needs to be sought after. As if there is an

independent happiness. It's not that the interdependent mantra

or whatever other aspect, will somehow give you another exotic

happiness, no, not at all. It brings you happiness by making you

realize there is no independent happiness. It makes you at least

have less hope for happiness. Therefore, there is also less fear of



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losing a seeming happiness that you have. Happiness, the

definition of happiness, is this being completely interdependent.

This happiness that you have today, may not be happiness

tomorrow. This you will realize. It's a very, very, profoundmethod, by which to achieve happiness. This is a Mahāyāna

path and you are allowed to discuss this with anyone.

Avalokiteshvara is Negating the thought:

‘the Mirage is Water’

"So Shāriputra..." Avalokiteshvara goes on to say:

Therefore, Shāriputra, in emptiness, there is

no form, no feeling, no perception, no formation,

no consciousness;

You should underline the words, ‘in emptiness.’ Because

here, Avalokiteshvara is not denying the existence of form,

feeling and all of that. It's not a negation. When Avalokiteshvara

says, the mirage is not water, he's not negating water. He's

negating the thought that the mirage is water. That's the

emptiness.

If you say the mirage is water there are major

consequences, such as major disappointment. In emptiness

Shariputa, life goes on:

There is no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue,

no body, no mind;

So those are the six sort of inner elements, we call them

the six subjective elements, and within that, within emptiness:



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There is no appearance, no sound, no smell,

no taste, no touch, no dharmas…

So these are the six external phenomena of the objectivephenomena. And then in emptiness there is no eye dhatu up to

no mind dhatu. This has the meaning of any dimensions of the

universe or phenomena that are within the perception of the

eye. Infinite objects, as much as the physical eye, and mind's eye

can see. This is not merely a psychological aspect, it is more sort

of in between outer and inner, so that it is more of a secret

phenomena. It is an in-between phenomena, that is in-betweenthe objective and the subjective. This is relevant both if I am

looking at something, and if I close both my eyes and look at the

tree in Bodh Gaya, for instance. It is using an experience in-

between subject and object, which is to say between: me, the

inner subject, and the inner object. I guess it is imagination.

All over the world, what we have is our imagination and

fantasy. Yet from the eye consciousness all the way up to the

mind consciousness, the fantasy, none of this exists. None of

this exists as a truly existing entity. They are all interdependent.

They are impermanent. They are made out of a lot of

components and given a label.

Discussing the Skandhas and the Emotions

S: Could you please define emotion as opposed to the

feelings? Is it one of the five skandhas?

A: Yes, it is one of the five skandhas.

S: The five skandhas are a combination that people have

created?

A: Yes. With everything that has an intention and an

action, that’s a formation.



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S: Feelings and emotions are two different things?

A: In this case, yes. Some of the so-called emotions in

the West can be part of feeling, some can be part of perception,

and others can be part of formation. What do you mean byemotion?

S: It is always quite difficult because it is so subjective but

generally one can say that emotion has a physical basis so that

with fear and anger, there's a lot of adrenalin in the body. The

muscles tighten and the heart rate goes up and so on. Besides

this, tears will come, and there is a tightening of the chest. So

emotions generally have a physical base, whereas a feelingreally tells us our relationship to something, the value to us.

A: Yeah. I think the definition of emotion is certainly

different from this. When the Buddhists use the word emotion, I

don't think they say ‘kleshas.’ I think it is good to use an

emotion. Kleshas. Nyön mong. Basically, the cause of many of

the kleshas is actually emotion.

The Tibetan word, Nyön mong has something to do with

every mental process that comes out of not knowing the truth.

It is very difficult to interpret, but it is basically paranoia. You are

looking at the mirage, and because you are thirsty, you think it

is water. Then, the moment you drink the water that is outside

of the truth. Now from that point on, there are all kinds of

processes and each process is a klesha. Not only the thought,

“Oh, what a beautiful stream!” even when one thinks, “maybe,

this is a mirage” even that is actually a klesha. Since you think it

is a mirage in reference to “this is water,” it therefore falls within

the department of a klesha. If right from the beginning, you see

the reality of the water, the truth, then the idea of mirage

doesn't even exist. Of course, truth is a very big word. But

anyway, for now, in very simple language, you can say that all

the mental processes spring out of ignorance. That also includes

these holy thoughts such as devotion and compassion.



64

S: ... Direct cognition should be to go beyond that?

A: Yes.

S: Is there a chance, or a possibility for let's say, two

Buddha natures, which I know is only...A: A fabrication?

S: to communicate? For example, with a dying person, or

a sick person, there are these kleshas, and I would like to know

when the person is confused or if they are not conscious, is there

still a chance?

A: Oh yeah, very much so. Not only for a dying person,

but even for us, because we too are a kind of dying person,ideally a Vajra master will always try to find a gap, within the

five skandhas, within and then beyond, and then, they will point

out the Buddha nature. That's the most ideal situation. But that

requires a very special ability, and it is not only the actual ability,

but it is also a matter of the master expressing it with the right

amount of words, the right amount of analogy, at the right time,

and at the right place. It could be during that time of drinking a

simple coffee. We never know. Also, the listener has to have the

ability to interpret it correctly. And that is difficult, and this is

why I call it the ideal situation. This ability is what the Buddhists

would call merit. You can collect that merit, and that's the good

thing about the Vajrayana. You can actually gather it. You can

learn. This is equally relevant, even if you are the most stupid of

vessels, and actually, sometimes the more stupid one is the

better one is in collecting this aggregate. But it's difficult

because the collecting of this ability has got a lot to do with

combating the ego. It has got a lot to do with exposing the ego.

So that's why it's difficult.

So we can always opt for a path that is not the most ideal

situation: a gradual path. And at least a link is created. You

know, based on karmic formation, the skandha, it creates a link

and again this is interdependent. Remember, we don't believe in



65

independently existing, we believe in interdependent

phenomena.

Now with this dying person whom you are talking to, you

know, in those last few moments before they die, and at theirdeath, they can't hear what you say. He's blind so and he can't

write a letter and say this is what you should be thinking. He's in

a coma so he can't even feel. Yet based on the interdependent

reality, you can always, meditate. You can do things like

Tonglen, for instance. It is slightly difficult for modern people to

believe but actually it has very good logic. This is very much

based on a link. See for instance, there is the fact that he or shehas you there, and perhaps you have the intention to do tonglen

meditation. But for him to have you doing that shows that he

has merit. That part is like the Vajra vow, and then we can plant

based on that. This is quite an important thing that one should

know.

When I was in San Francisco recently, this time I was

teaching compassion and there is something to this, which is

very simple but somehow people really couldn't understand.

Many people had a really hard time. You know, Buddhists think,

each and every being has the potential of compassion. Okay of

course, when we talk in terms of touchy, feeling teachings, then

we say this is because everybody has the Buddhanature. But to

talk more theoretically, we say that everybody can have

compassion, because once someone knows how to hurt

another, that knowledge of knowing how to hurt someone is

very much the cause of compassion. So there's a twist there. It

means that you know what hurts you, and therefore, you are

doing this to others. That's good. As long as someone knows

how to hurt another that's a very good piece of news. It means

this is a potential mark of the bodhisattva. It is precious. Like

take for instance, this cup, if it falls on my hand, the cup doesn't



66

think, “Okay, I am going to make you have some pain.”

Therefore I can never teach compassion to the cup.

There are things like that in the Buddhist theoretical

canon. It is very important piece of information; very important.For instance, what is one of the most important causes or

attributes, for a human being to become a monk? It is a working

penis, one that is sort of in good condition. Either you have it

now, or you had it before at some time in the past. The Buddhist

teachings are really very thorough, just everything is taken care

of, really. And it makes sense. I mean if you don't have that what

are you trying to become? By your becoming a monk, what doesthat mean? It's a bit like that. So when you have compassion

towards sentient beings, it works based on sentient beings

having the merit to have you. You know, that is saying a lot.

S: I have a question on the meditation. We watch all of

the five skandhas?

A: You can watch all the five skandhas at the same time

or watch each different one. Watching the form is good. It's very

amusing. Watching the form is a bit like watching a garbage

can. We can call form: a whole lot of garbage. It's very funny,

this form that we have. There is one head, a nose on the inside,

and with the ears, here we are not knowing whether to ferment

more wax or not; there are just all kinds of things. It's amazing

to watch the form. From time to time, there are things coming

out of this form, things that come out from the different parts.

Some are in a lighter function, and some are quite subtle, like

for instance, some can excite others, but some can also be really

disgusting; for the others though. It's really important to watch

the form. It's a good one to watch, and it's my favorite. The

feeling is really unreachable, the rest are even worse, they are

just so subtle. Beginning with form is good. There are things like

the small luggage that is hanging from your ear. Then there are

socks; you know, how we wear socks? That's very interesting.



67

Actually, most underwear is very funny. I mean, no need to

mention, all the different kinds of really exotic underwear.

Even the Twelve Nidhanas do not Exist

Shāriputra, there are no nidhanas, therefore there is no

cessation of nidhanas:

…no ignorance, no end of ignorance up to

no old age and death, no end of old age and death;

This part is talking about what we call the nidhanas or

the twelve interdependent originations. It is a very difficult

subject. It begins with ignorance, of course. Ignorance creates

and then there is formation. Then there is the consciousness

and so forth, all the way up to the death. Basically the twelve

nidhanas are how our so-called life functions. Not only are we

talking about life in the sense of our body, and this life, but also

when it comes to a simple idea, like the moment you see the

mirage as water, even that's also ignorance. It is ignorance that

then leads you to the action of going there, craving it and

labeling it as water. And in taking the water, or at least in our

attempt to try and take the water, during this process, the idea

of water is getting old, aged, decayed. And when you realize

that there is no water, and that it is just a mirage, then this is the

death of this idea. Within our relationships, and with just

everything, we have these twelve nidhanas. Now we are hearing

that these twelve nidhanas, do not truly exist . That's what

Shāriputra, and Avalokiteshvara are saying. Therefore there is

also no cessation of these twelve nidhanas. In emptiness, there

is:



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no suffering, no origin of suffering, no

cessation of suffering, no path…

There is no path to see the suffering. Since there is noignorance there is no wisdom. Since there is no wisdom there is

nothing to obtain. Since there is no wisdom there is no non-

attainment. Now this last one is very important: there is no

enlightenment to attain. Therefore Shāriputra, since the

bodhisattva's have nothing to attain and since there is no

attainment, this is what we call the prajnaparamita. No hope,

and no fear is to abide in the means of the prajnaparamita. It isbecause of that the bodhisattva’s have no obscurations of the

mind. Because there is no enlightenment, there is no fear; the

bodhisattva is beyond all this falsity, such as having something

to attain, something not to attain, something to lose, and all of

that. That is what we call complete nirvana. All the past

Buddhas and bodhisattvas, have gone through this. To reach

the awakened state, both the present Buddha and the future

Buddha traverse by means of the prajnaparamita. This

awakened state is unsurpassable because it is beyond samsara

and nirvana. And that is the only truth: the complete

enlightenment.

Different Terms for Different Purposes

S: These words nirvana, buddhanature and

enlightenment, are they the same?

A: You see, during the path we use the word

“emptiness.” It is the same thing but it is taught using different

names, because there are different purposes: one as a power,

one as the being, and one as the result.



69

S: I have a question regarding translation. We always

hear and use the term “emptiness” and the first question is: In

Tibetan, is the prajnaparamita a different word from what is

usually used for emptiness, or is it the same?A: No, in Tibetan it is not the same word as the word for

emptiness. Prajnaparamita in Tibetan is what we call sherab chi

parol tu chin pa, which means ‘the supreme mind that's gone

beyond.’ Prajnaparamita has this meaning. Emptiness in

Tibetan is referred to as stong pa nyid . In fact, they are exactly

the same, you know. It is just that when we talk about the view,

the word emptiness is better. This is only because there is that aspect you are supposed to understand. But in reality, there is

no object called emptiness, which you should be understanding.

S: Should we always translate all the Tibetan terms for

emptiness, as “emptiness” as seems to happen in the English

language? Because some people say that the term openness is

better. Or does that make it 'nice'?

A: I think, after all the numerous discussions, emptiness

is still the safest term. Openness can be okay, some of the time,

but not all of the time.

S: Because you were asking us about emptiness, and

there is always this negative conception.

A: Yeah, I know.

S: It's always the opposite of full.

A: You see, for a Mahāyāna Buddhist, nihilism and

eternalism are equally bad. The thing is openness may lead to

the eternalist. But there is something interesting here. If there is

a nihilist and an eternalist, and you have to defeat both of them,

most of the classic Buddhist texts, would choose the eternalist

first. This is because in the past, eternalism was such a big

problem. You know, there is God, the Almighty and all that.

There is the permanent soul and all of that. But, I think maybe

now, we should choose the nihilist first.



70

S: So for now, like for instance with view, meditation,

and action, you have path and you have three different terms,

and there is no chance to translate and make it clear.

A: Oh yes, it's already translated. For instance, when wetalk about view, we use the term emptiness, right? And most of

the time during the path, we use the term Buddhanature, and

for the result, we use the term dharmakaya. What you (are

doing is that?) Anyway, this will help you. You know the

Buddhist concept of nirvana? Let's forget the touchy feely bit for

a moment. If you really want to study this theoretically, then

academically, the identity of Buddhist nirvana is a state of absence. You see, when we talk about a clean window, we are

talking about an absence of dirt. That is what we call a ‘clean

window.’ You cannot make the window clean. But you can make

the dirt go away. And you can prove logically and scientifically

that the window can be cleaned based on the fact that dirt is

temporal.

Visualization comes within the category of:

Outer, Objective Phenomena

S: If one kind of experiences something when doing a

meditation, it's imagination, and there is a danger to cling on to

that.

A: Yes, as with everything.

S: When we perceive something that is there. You

connect an experience, and there is this imagination and with

that it’s more unreal. But I am just asking because of

visualization actually.

A: Yes, all of visualization comes within this category,

within that of the six groups. You know, this outer, objective,

within the objective six groups, which includes for instance,



71

form, body, sound, taste and all that? And then there is the eye,

the inner, and there is also the sort of more in between, at the

consciousness level.

Milarepa and Marpa: Sometimes Masters can make a

big Deal out of Nothing

S: He heard a story and would like you to maybe clarify

the story. The story is about Marpa and Milarepa. When Marpa's

son died, then Marpa was crying and Milarepa was asking him,why is it of great importance that your son was dying since

everything is empty? Marpa answered by saying that to lose

one's son is the biggest teaching of all.

A: It must be. I have heard something like that too.

S: He is asking if you could clarify this, because he is not

really understanding it.

A: Oh, Marpa must have been giving Milarepa another

lesson. These things happen a lot. To strengthen an

understanding of emptiness, just as the practitioner, the disciple

is getting a little comfortable with the notion of emptiness, the

masters can make a big deal out of nothing. Like, if you happen

to purchase the wrong brand of toothpicks, he can just go crazy.

He might be saying how this is not the right type and all of that.

There are just so many things like that. Like with Shakyamuni

Buddha, the last deed was the passing, and that was a big lesson

for his disciples. Here we are, now talking about beyond death,

beyond birth and all that. And the lesson is usually something

that is playing with your imagination: to strengthen the

devotion, I guess. Just as Milarepa is beginning to see Marpa as

Chakrasamvara, to be confronted with the sight of a wailing

mother, might damage that. You know, it might shake that

perception of Chakrasamvara, and that's important. It's quite



72

important for the students to look for that. Basically when it

comes to a relationship between Marpa and Mila, there is never

a written rule. There are no rules.

That's the very difficult part. You cannot complain. Norules, no complaining. You just have to begin this, thinking that

you will be unfairly treated all the way. In any case, fairness is

also interdependent. Actually, fairness and equality are very,

very big delusions.

When Watching the Skandhas:You shouldn’t be doing anything

S: I come to this teaching because it comforts me. It

makes me happy. So I have developed so much attachment. I

have the thinking I want more and more. Recently, when I was

thinking that I wanted to go to Dordogne, I was thinking maybe

I would die on the way, right? I had so much fear! I came here to

hear the prajnaparamita and emptiness and I don't understand

why I have so much fear, which I shouldn't have. Also, I noticed

that even as I listen to this teaching, I feel that I am getting more

attached to it.

A: I think, with all this, you should just watch the

skandha, the feeling.

S: Yeah, I do.

A: Good. You know, the word nyamshak . In Tibetan we

call this watching, nyamshak which I think is translated as

meditation. I don't think it is the right translation. Actually

nyamshak is really such a beautiful word. N yam means equal but

let's forget that for the moment. Now shak that's also a very

beautiful word. That means ‘leave it alone.’ Just let it be. And

there is that connotation of let it be. It is usually different when

it is taught in a form, like with things like a mudra, the gesture.



73

You know, there is a mudra, like this. That is what they call the

teaching mudra, and then there is another mudra like this,

which is giving. You see, all of these mudras have no feeling of

‘letting it be.’ But this one has. Usually this is called nyamshak ,the mudra for samādhi.

Now, letting it be, that's a very important one. When we

watch the skandhas, as I said yesterday, you watch but you don't

involve. Don't judge. Don't follow it. Just watch. And what is

that? That's letting it be. You are not responding to it, basically.

Now that is what they call the greatest art of indifference. It is

the greatest art of ignoring also. You stare it. That's it. You justcompletely ignore it. Out of ignoring and because you are not

involved this is why it's called the great rest. So when you are

watching the skandhas, you shouldn't be doing anything, such

as involving; that's the rest. Of course, for the beginners, that's

also the cause of restlessness.

This is also a bit like a Vipashyana, or very much so. You

watch the skandhas, the five aggregates basically. Watch is, I

guess, the only language that we can use, but basically, it is to

notice. Just notice, that's all. Nothing more. It's very simple,

that's the challenge. The challenge is that we don't believe that

this will achieve enlightenment. It's too simple. We just can't

accept it. Okay, but, “How can this liberate me, by just noticing

my form?” But it does because if you notice and if you just watch

it, everyday for a few minutes, without engaging, without

judging, as I've told you many times that really undoes lots of

knots. Anxiety for instance, and depression, there are all these

things functioning. Why? It is because you are involving with

them.

I had a student and she was very much in love with this

guy but the man was in love with another man and she was so

jealous. Because it was not your standard competition, but

rather, it was a kind of special competition. I told her, you know,



74

I've taught this vipashyana, and so every time you are jealous,

you should just watch. Then she comes back complaining,

because she doesn't want to meditate. She said when you do

that then jealousy dismantles, it disintegrates. Jealousy is therebut it is sort of like tasteless jealousy, not spiced jealousy. I

thought that is a very good thought. It means she is meditating.

So don't involve. If you involve then you are not meditating. Just

apply this art of watching and noticing, until it really dismantles,

misinterpreted things. You know what happens is it slows down

the speed of your thoughts. It confuses the normal pattern, or

normal habit of how our mind glides within us. It confuses, thenormal channel. Because when you involve, and once you pay

attention, it becomes a food for the thoughts. But when you just

watch, there is no fuel. You are not giving any fuel. Then they

become very weak. You then begin to see a different world. It is

a world without these filters.

The Mantra of Prajnaparamitra

Of course, eventually, our aim is to understand the

interdependent prajnaparamita, or the interdependent reality.

But for those who cannot understand right away, here

Avalokiteshvara is going to give us the mantra of prajnaparmita.

You see, as I have been telling you, the emptiness is never a

negation. It is not a nihilist kind of negation. Otherwise, why

else is there a mantra of prajnaparamita? You chant the mantra

of emptiness. The path, the method, is never denied. Method is

accepted. And methods are limitless.

If there is somebody looking at a mirage and thinking

that this is water, our aim is to make the person realize that it is

a mirage, not water. As to how you do it, or how you make the

person know this, the methods are infinite. There is complete



75

diversity. With some, right from the beginning, you say, that's a

mirage. If you, the listener have the ability, you get it: right

there. There is no need to waste time, with all this struggling to

see whether it is mirage or not; there is none of that. For others,which is the case for most of us, it's difficult to accept that it is

not water. For some, maybe intellectually, it is possible to

accept but not emotionally. So for these people, for some of

them it’s important to say, “Yes. That's actually water. Let's go

and drink.” All along you know that it's not. There are infinite

methods, and this we cannot deny. It is a very important

message, this one.As I was telling you, through not understanding this, it

has caused so many problems among the Buddhists, because

some think they are so minimalist. Like with the Zen people,

they laugh at the Vajrayana mandala: “You know the sand

mandala? What is it? God, this is Buddhism?” Then the

Theravadin Buddhists get so shocked when they see the

Vajrayana’s practice of male and female, nakedly embracing,

replete with a skullcup and skull ornaments. And then again, the

Mahāyāna and Vajrayana chauvinists, they look down on the

Theravada: “Oh you know, shaving one’s hair off, what is that?

It's like self-flagellation.” It is comes back to not understanding

that the methods are infinite and that each of those methods

are important for different people.

And here is another method, the mantra: the great

mantra of prajnaparamita. It is the mantra of great insight. It is

the unsurpassed mantra; the unequalled mantra; the mantra

that calms the suffering. It is a mantra that has soothed all the

suffering and one must trust, without any deception and one

must know that this is the truth. (Rinpoche chants the mantra)

OM GATE GATE PARAGATE

PARASAMGATE BODHI SVAHA



76

That's the mantra. Gone, gone, the supremely gone, the

supremely perfect gone. So be it. That's a mantra. Form is

emptiness: that's gone. Emptiness is form: that's the second

gone. “Emptiness is no other than form” that's supremely gone.And, “Form is not other than emptiness” that is the supremely

perfect going. And what do you do about it? Nothing. Just: Let it

be. Of course, ideally you meditate on this, but if you can't

mediate all the time, at least by just chanting that it really pokes

some holes. It dents our vanity box.

Thus, Shāriputra, the mahasattva,bodhisattva should train in the profound

prajnaparamita. One should practice the profound

prajnaparamita just as you have taught, and all the

tathagatas will rejoice.

Then the Buddha arose from the samādhi of the

profound prajnaparamita and the all illuminating or the

profound illuminating samādhi and confirmed this with

Avalokiteshvara, by saying:

Good, good, O son of noble family; thus it

is, thus it is.

All the Buddhas are happy with this. After Buddha had

said this, all the retinue such as Shāriputra, Avalokiteshvara and

all the other assembly, including the gods, the humans, the

asuras, and gandharvas, they all praised the words of the

Blessed One. Now that's the end of the Heart Sūtra.



77

Two Great Commentators:

Nagarjuna and Maitreya

Even though the Heart Sūtra is not spoken directly by

the Buddha, it is a discussion that springs from the Buddha's

blessing, which is why it is characterized as a sūtra. Well, if we

are looking for a bigger more extended praise, there are the

eight thousand verses or there are the twenty thousand verses,

and then there are also the seven hundred thousand verses.

People read those verses even today. As a Mahāyāna Buddhist,it is almost a tradition to read the Heart Sūtra, once each day.

It's very much revered by many, many, Mahāyāna people. Take

for instance Khublai Khan, one of the Chinese emperors. The

eight thousand verses of the Heart Sūtra were written down

using five different kinds of jewels. Actually there are many

Chinese emperors, who have done amazing stuff. But anyway

with most of the sūtras, traditionally these are read in the

monasteries. Now if you want to study this, then usually, we

study the shastras, and the commentaries to these verses.

Of particular mention, there are the two great

commentaries, by Nagarjuna, and Maitreya. Both have their

distinctive elements. Nagarjuna puts more into, “Form is

emptiness” and Maitreya is leaning more towards, “Emptiness is

form.” Nagarjuna talks so much about emptiness and

deconstruction, whereas Maitreya talks more about the

potential or rather, he talks about the benefit and great qualities

of the emptiness. Nagarjuna talks more of the absence and

Maitreya talks about the presence of that absence.

Take for instance, how a glass of water can be seen by

different beings as different things. As a human, we see this as a

water, as a fish they see this as a home. Nagarjuna talks about

all of that perception, and about whatever you think, “It is not



78

real.” You cannot say that one of these things is real. You cannot

say because we are feeling these things, thus our human

perception is real. How do you judge what is real? We cannot

vote because we lose that. Then more fish. So whose perceptionis real? Nobodies. These perceptions are all a hallucination. They

are all a mental projection. That is how Nagarjuna talks. But

with Maitreya, he goes into why different people see this as

different. What is there that causes different people to see

different things? Is there something? Nothing. But what kind of

nothing is it? That is how Maitreya talks. Okay, so to be precise,

'empty' is what Nagarjuna talks on, whereas 'ness' is whatMaitreya talks about. Both of them are great commentators. It

is amazing. Sometimes I feel it is a pity they didn’t write some

other books, like plays or politics, or something like that. They

could have been very famous now. I think both of them are also

contemporary to the Greek philosophy, like the Plato’s and the

Aristotle’s and all of that.

There were also many great disciples that they produced

such as Aryudeva, Chantrikirti, up to the Nagarjuna. And by the

way, these figures are not just some dry, nerdy, sort of

philosophers who irritate everyone, by wearing a beret, and

chewing on some leftover cigar. They are great mahasiddhas,

too. They are saints. They did all kinds of impossible things. Like

with Chandrikirti, the follower of Nagarjuna, when he needed

milk, he milked a painted cow. So they are very interesting

characters not merely book worms. And this milking a painted

cow also has a great significance because to milk a painted cow,

indicates an understanding of emptiness. And then with

Maitreya he has some really amazing disciples, and has perhaps

even a higher number of disciples. It’s amazing, and really

compassionate, very compassionate. Nagarjuna and company

have this feeling of being the destroyer of your concepts.

Maitreya and company have more of a feeling of compassion



79

towards your concepts. They are amazing people, the Maitreya

followers.

There is this one story of a nun, a Buddhist nun, who was

living in India, within this male dominated country, at a timewhen Buddhism in general and especially Mahāyāna Buddhism,

was in real danger of extinction. Now this Buddhist nun, she

slept with a king, with the intention of wanting to produce a

child. It's kind of an outrageous thing for a nun to do. Out of this,

came the great Asanga, but then as if this wasn’t enough, she

slept with a Brahmin, as well. This was in India where you can't

think of having two men! But from this, came the greatVasubandu, the great, great commentator. Asanga, the older

brother, was known for being, very, very, very compassionate,

and he was someone who really, really admired Lord Maitreya.

In fact, he prayed and practiced Maitreya for twelve years but

without even having one good dream. Feeling depressed he

comes out and he sees a female dog about to die. This dog was

dying of starvation. And out of great compassion he cuts his

own flesh and is about to give this to the dog. Suddenly, the

delusion of the dog disappeared and Lord Maitreya was there.

After that Lord Maitreya taught him and gave him all the

teachings. Lord Maitreya was in the Tushita heaven at that time,

so Lord Maitreya took Asanga to Tushita and for five heavenly

days, he taught him.

Nagarjuna also wrote many books. His greatest, and

most respected one, is the Mula-Madhymaka-karika. He

analyzed everything, from the concept of coming and going all

the way to the concept of enlightenment. Maitreya has five

main texts, and one that is quite popular is the Uttaratantra.

Anyway, all of this is a commentary to the Heart Sūtra teaching.



80

An Interdependent Ceremony of Auspicious

Verses

So that's the end of the Heart Sūtra, and now we will doone more interdependent ceremony. Someone's getting merit.

Where are they? The bride and the groom, please approach. Oh

good, there are so many flowers coming.

Well you know, there is no Buddhist marriage ceremony

but we have what we call auspicious verses, and we recite these

verses. The auspicious verses are quite nice. There is talk about

how one should appreciate what we have, as if every moment inour life is worth a celebration. Even if you manage to go to the

toilet successfully, it is actually worthy of a celebration. If you

breathe out and then you manage to also breathe in, it's also a

cause for celebration, so you see, life is just full of reasons why

we should celebrate instead of feeling unsatisfied or whatever.

So these are very beautiful verses and this is what I am going to

recite. It is sort of coming from the Sanskrit shlokas, so again

there is a lot of Indian influence, which is bound up with making

a mess with flowers.

The last verse is written by the great Ashvaghosha. He is

saying, in our lives, in our relative world, happiness is most

important, and happiness is basically a freedom. Now as a

Mahāyāna Buddhist, our aim is to give everyone freedom. But

that's difficult, and it's a little bit idealistic. So we begin with

giving our self this freedom. That is if you are a single person.

Now if you are getting married, you then have a really good

chance to practice how to give freedom to the other. So you

give her freedom and she gives you freedom. You see, this is

how the Buddhists talk. It is completely the opposite of what

people normally think. Usually marriage is a bit of a chaining to

each other. But from the Buddhist point of view, the whole

purpose of marriage is so that you learn how to give freedom to



each other. So with the last verse, it's the verse of the Three

Gems, the Triple Gems:

May we be protected by the Three Gems.

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