2015 CJAA CONVENTION CHECKRIDE WITH NON-QUAL’D SAE

2015 CJAA CONVENTION2015 CJAA CONVENTION

CHECKRIDE WITH NON-QUAL’D SAECHECKRIDE WITH NON-QUAL’D SAE

FAA Practical & 61.58 Exams in:FAA Practical & 61.58 Exams in:

““STRANGE” STRANGE” AIRCRAFTAIRCRAFT

1. – Definition of a1. – Definition of a“Strange” Aircraft:“Strange” Aircraft:

A “Strange” Aircraft is one in which no A “Strange” Aircraft is one in which no current SAE holds a pilot qualification current SAE holds a pilot qualification – ““Authorized Experimental Aircraft”Authorized Experimental Aircraft”

and/or and/or

– Authorization on the SAE’s LOA issued by Authorization on the SAE’s LOA issued by AFS-800, authorizing them to administer an AFS-800, authorizing them to administer an FAA practical exam in the subject aircraftFAA practical exam in the subject aircraft

2. – Examples of2. – Examples of “Strange” Aircraft: “Strange” Aircraft:

Propeller Driven:Propeller Driven:

– Northrop P-61 “Black Widow”Northrop P-61 “Black Widow”

– North American F-82 “Twin Mustang”North American F-82 “Twin Mustang”

– Fairy “Gannett”Fairy “Gannett”

– Martin Baker MB-5, or Hawker “Typhoon”Martin Baker MB-5, or Hawker “Typhoon”

– ““Tucano”Tucano”


Reaction Powered (jet, rocket, fart):Reaction Powered (jet, rocket, fart):– Lockheed F-104 “Starfighter”Lockheed F-104 “Starfighter”– McDonnell Douglas F-4 “Phantom”McDonnell Douglas F-4 “Phantom”– North American B-66 “Sky Warrior”North American B-66 “Sky Warrior”– Bede BD-5j “Micro”Bede BD-5j “Micro”– Folland “Gnat”Folland “Gnat”


REALLY “Strange”:REALLY “Strange”:

– Scaled Composites M-281 “Proteus”Scaled Composites M-281 “Proteus”

– Scaled Composites M-348 “White Knight 2”Scaled Composites M-348 “White Knight 2”

– Jet powered sailplanesJet powered sailplanes

– Any “One-of-a Kind” jet powered homebuiltAny “One-of-a Kind” jet powered homebuilt

– Any “One-of-a Kind” Propeller driven aircraft Any “One-of-a Kind” Propeller driven aircraft that would require an AEA, (like a WWII replica that would require an AEA, (like a WWII replica that has the HP and cruising airpseed)that has the HP and cruising airpseed)

3. – Initiation Process, 3. – Initiation Process, (Request Path)(Request Path)

Candidate ---> SAE ---> AFS-830Candidate ---> SAE ---> AFS-830

– If you contact the SAE, they must get If you contact the SAE, they must get authorization from AFS-830 to administer authorization from AFS-830 to administer the practical or 61.58 examthe practical or 61.58 exam

– NOTE: If you contact a non-qual’d SAE and NOTE: If you contact a non-qual’d SAE and request their services….They really must request their services….They really must make a self assessment of their own make a self assessment of their own qualifications, experience, suitability to do qualifications, experience, suitability to do the check. I.e. the check. I.e. “Should I really do this”“Should I really do this”??


Candidate ---> SAE ---> AFS-830Candidate ---> SAE ---> AFS-830

– Example: Someone experienced and Example: Someone experienced and suitable to do an F-104, may not be suitable to do an F-104, may not be appropriate to do a P-61appropriate to do a P-61

– Example: Someone experienced and Example: Someone experienced and suitable to do an F-82, may not be suitable to do an F-82, may not be appropriate to do an F-4appropriate to do an F-4


Candidate ---> SAE ---> AFS-830Candidate ---> SAE ---> AFS-830– IMPORTANT:IMPORTANT:…. If there is another SAE …. If there is another SAE

qualified in the aircraft, but you contact a qualified in the aircraft, but you contact a non-qual’d SAE, they non-qual’d SAE, they MUSTMUST contact the contact the other SAE(s) to see if they are available to other SAE(s) to see if they are available to do the check.do the check.

– !!! Only if any qualified SAE(s) is/are not !!! Only if any qualified SAE(s) is/are not available can the SAE you contacted request to available can the SAE you contacted request to administer the FAA practical or 61.58 exam in administer the FAA practical or 61.58 exam in the aircraft in which they are not qualified!!!the aircraft in which they are not qualified!!!


Candidate ---> AFS-830 ---> SAECandidate ---> AFS-830 ---> SAE

– If candidate contacts AFS-830, the inspector If candidate contacts AFS-830, the inspector scans the background and qualifications of scans the background and qualifications of all SAEs and makes an assessment of who all SAEs and makes an assessment of who would be “best” or “reasonably” qualified in a would be “best” or “reasonably” qualified in a like aircraft.like aircraft.

– AFS-830 will then contact one of the “best” AFS-830 will then contact one of the “best” or “reasonably” qualified SAEs to see if they or “reasonably” qualified SAEs to see if they are willing to do the practical or 61.58 examare willing to do the practical or 61.58 exam


Examples of “best” or “reasonably” Examples of “best” or “reasonably” qualified: (Just examples…..)qualified: (Just examples…..)– P-61: Stew Dawson, Charlie TilghmanP-61: Stew Dawson, Charlie Tilghman

– Tucano: Lee Lauderbach, John Penney Tucano: Lee Lauderbach, John Penney

– F-4: Rick Milson, Tom GregoryF-4: Rick Milson, Tom Gregory

– Gnat: Larry Salganek, Zach McNeilGnat: Larry Salganek, Zach McNeil

– White Knight 2: John Penney, Steve Kirik White Knight 2: John Penney, Steve Kirik

– Gannett: Tom Gregory, Ed FinneganGannett: Tom Gregory, Ed Finnegan


Examples of “best” or “reasonably” qualified:Examples of “best” or “reasonably” qualified:– In some cases: ALL SAEs may be “best qualified”In some cases: ALL SAEs may be “best qualified”

– Impala: anyone qualified in the L-29/39 would be Impala: anyone qualified in the L-29/39 would be a good SAE for the checka good SAE for the check

– So...Who’s closest?So...Who’s closest? OR:…If they’ve already done a check in the subject OR:…If they’ve already done a check in the subject

bird, they may likely be contacted.bird, they may likely be contacted. Pinto – McNeil, Gnat – Salganek, Proteus: PenneyPinto – McNeil, Gnat – Salganek, Proteus: Penney

4. – Authorization Process 4. – Authorization Process from AFS-830from AFS-830

NO Blanket Authorizations by acft “Group”NO Blanket Authorizations by acft “Group”

– There is no blanket authorization for any There is no blanket authorization for any SAEs to give FAA practical or 61.58 exams SAEs to give FAA practical or 61.58 exams by aircraft groupings. by aircraft groupings.

– Their ONLY authorizations are for those Their ONLY authorizations are for those experimental aircraft listed in their LOA from experimental aircraft listed in their LOA from AFS-800AFS-800


SAE requests authorization from AFS-830SAE requests authorization from AFS-830

– Whether you contact AFS-800 or the SAE. Whether you contact AFS-800 or the SAE. The SAE MUST submit a formal request to The SAE MUST submit a formal request to AFS-830 to receive authorization to AFS-830 to receive authorization to administer the practical examadminister the practical exam

– Even if they have given previous exams in the Even if they have given previous exams in the subject “strange” aircraft, they MUST submit a subject “strange” aircraft, they MUST submit a written request on a case-by-case basis for written request on a case-by-case basis for each individual practical exam.each individual practical exam.

– No such thing as a “blanket authorization”No such thing as a “blanket authorization”


– AFS-830 must have a AFS-830 must have a file copy of the request file copy of the request and will respond to the and will respond to the request with an request with an approval or otherwise.approval or otherwise.

Request to administer FAA practical exams, PROTEUS, SPCSHP2, WHTKNT2 From penneyjs [email protected] detailsTo Raymond.Stinchcomb [email protected] penneyjs [email protected]

To: Raymond Stinchcomb, AFS-800, FAA 12/01/12FAA, General Aviation and Commercial Division55 M Street, S.E., 8th FloorWashington DC 20003-3522 Dear Mr. Stinchcomb, This letter is to request authorization from you to administer FAA practical and FAR 61.58 exams in the Scaled Composites Proteus (PROTEUS), Space Ship Two (SPCSHP2), and White Knight Two (WHTKNT2) to the following individuals:David Hansen: AEA, PROTEUSPeter Siebold: AEA, SPCSHP2David Mackay: 61.68, WHTKNT2As you know, I am not qualified with an "Authorized Experimental Aircraft"limitation in any of the aircraft listed above. Although the request is for the examination to be administered starting onor about 12/08/2013, through 12/10/2013, I would request that the authorization be valid for a period of 60 days in the event that maintenance or weather issues, etc.,preclude examining on these initial requested dates. Thank you for your attention to this matter. John C. Penney, President MiG Masters LLC 30141 Stowe Ct. Evergreen, CO 80439 303-674-6235 Hm 303-570-0567 Cell [email protected]

mailto:[email protected]


– The SAE will usually The SAE will usually request a window of 60 request a window of 60 days.days.

Request to administer FAA practical exams, PROTEUS, SPCSHP2, WHTKNT2 From penneyjs [email protected] detailsTo Raymond.Stinchcomb [email protected] penneyjs [email protected]

To: Raymond Stinchcomb, AFS-800, FAA 12/01/12FAA, General Aviation and Commercial Division55 M Street, S.E., 8th FloorWashington DC 20003-3522 Dear Mr. Stinchcomb, This letter is to request authorization from you to administer FAA practical and FAR 61.58 exams in the Scaled Composites Proteus (PROTEUS), Space Ship Two (SPCSHP2), and White Knight Two (WHTKNT2) to the following individuals:David Hansen: AEA, PROTEUSPeter Siebold: AEA, SPCSHP2David Mackay: 61.68, WHTKNT2As you know, I am not qualified with an "Authorized Experimental Aircraft"limitation in any of the aircraft listed above. Although the request is for the examination to be administered starting onor about 12/08/2013, through 12/10/2013, I would request that the authorization be valid for a period of 60 days in the event that maintenance or weather issues, etc.,preclude examining on these initial requested dates. Thank you for your attention to this matter. John C. Penney, President MiG Masters LLC 30141 Stowe Ct. Evergreen, CO 80439 303-674-6235 Hm 303-570-0567 Cell [email protected]

mailto:[email protected]

5. – Pre-Check Coordination5. – Pre-Check Coordination !!! Someone in the aircraft MUST be !!! Someone in the aircraft MUST be

authorized to act as PIC, by FAA Regs!!!authorized to act as PIC, by FAA Regs!!!– Single place acft, SAE ground observes – Single place acft, SAE ground observes –

Candidate needs LOA for exam (Candidate needs LOA for exam (unless “G”unless “G”))

– Multi-place aircraft, SAE in non flying seat – Multi-place aircraft, SAE in non flying seat – Candidate Candidate DOES NOT DOES NOT need LOA, need LOA, IFIF the the other pilot possesses AEA in acft (like he’s other pilot possesses AEA in acft (like he’s the candidate’s instructor).the candidate’s instructor).

– Dual Place acft, SAE in a flying seat – Dual Place acft, SAE in a flying seat – Candidate needs LOA for the examCandidate needs LOA for the exam

– FAA has up to 30 days to respond and issueFAA has up to 30 days to respond and issue

5. – Pre-Check Coordination5. – Pre-Check Coordination !!! Someone in the aircraft MUST be !!! Someone in the aircraft MUST be

authorized to act as PIC, by FAA Regs!!!authorized to act as PIC, by FAA Regs!!!– Note: The FAA template for “Temporary Note: The FAA template for “Temporary

LOA” for training, like in a single place LOA” for training, like in a single place aircraft, aircraft, DOES NOT DOES NOT include wording for the include wording for the candidate to act as PIC during the practical candidate to act as PIC during the practical exam.exam.

– You MUST tell the local FSDO to ensure You MUST tell the local FSDO to ensure that wording allowing PIC during the exam is that wording allowing PIC during the exam is included in the LOAincluded in the LOA

5. – Pre-Check Coordination5. – Pre-Check Coordination FAA Order 8130.2 “G” issues……..FAA Order 8130.2 “G” issues……..

– In the “Memorandum, Deviation to Order In the “Memorandum, Deviation to Order 8130.2G, Section 10” Para 4113, b., (6), (d)…8130.2G, Section 10” Para 4113, b., (6), (d)…the “logbook endorsement” is intended for the “logbook endorsement” is intended for authorizing “limited local authorizing “limited local solosolo operations” operations” ONLYONLY in in SINGLE SEAT SINGLE SEAT aircraft, aircraft, NOTNOT to solo multi- to solo multi-place acft like a T-33 or to take the practical place acft like a T-33 or to take the practical exam with a non-qual’d SAE in the plane.exam with a non-qual’d SAE in the plane.

– !!!AGAIN…non-qual’d SAE is in the dual !!!AGAIN…non-qual’d SAE is in the dual place “Strange Aircraft”, you place “Strange Aircraft”, you MUSTMUST possess possess a Temp LOA to take the check!!!a Temp LOA to take the check!!!

5. – Pre-Check Coordination5. – Pre-Check Coordination FAA Fm 8710-1 issues……..FAA Fm 8710-1 issues……..

– If you were trained by a CFI/AI who If you were trained by a CFI/AI who possesses an AEA in the “Strange” aircraft, possesses an AEA in the “Strange” aircraft, that CFI/AI should sign the recommendation that CFI/AI should sign the recommendation block on the backside of the 8710block on the backside of the 8710

– If there is no instructor or the instructor is not If there is no instructor or the instructor is not a CFI/AI, then the SAE can get authorization a CFI/AI, then the SAE can get authorization from AFS-830 to sign as the recommending from AFS-830 to sign as the recommending CFI/AI…..CFI/AI…..IFIF they want/agree to. Example: a they want/agree to. Example: a “first time” aircraft (SU-27, MiG-29, etc.).“first time” aircraft (SU-27, MiG-29, etc.).

5. – Pre-Check Coordination5. – Pre-Check Coordination FAA Fm 8710-1 issues……..FAA Fm 8710-1 issues……..

– So…it is possible for the SAE to be both the So…it is possible for the SAE to be both the recommending CFI/AI and the certifying recommending CFI/AI and the certifying Examiner!Examiner!

– If it’s necessary for the SAE to recommend, If it’s necessary for the SAE to recommend, then check, they will get an authorization then check, they will get an authorization from AFS-830 in advance.from AFS-830 in advance.

Administrative ConsiderationsAdministrative Considerations

– If your aircraft is a first of a kind in which a If your aircraft is a first of a kind in which a practical exam is being administered, practical exam is being administered, coordination must be made with AFS-830 coordination must be made with AFS-830 and OKC to come up with a suitable and OKC to come up with a suitable designation for the new “type”designation for the new “type”

– A new designation for a new “type” can be A new designation for a new “type” can be any combination of letters and numbers but any combination of letters and numbers but can be no more than 7 characters in length.can be no more than 7 characters in length.

5. – Pre-Check Coordination5. – Pre-Check Coordination

5. – Pre-Check Coordination5. – Pre-Check Coordination

– If the aircraft is a new “type” but is NOT an If the aircraft is a new “type” but is NOT an otherwise known model, (as is the F-82 for otherwise known model, (as is the F-82 for example), it may be necessary for the SAE example), it may be necessary for the SAE to provide some technical description for to provide some technical description for OKC to understand the basis for the new OKC to understand the basis for the new designation (Proteus, for example).designation (Proteus, for example).

Administrative ConsiderationsAdministrative Considerations

– Be prepared to offer the SAE any info Be prepared to offer the SAE any info necessary to get a designation for the new necessary to get a designation for the new “type”.“type”.

6. – Pre-Check Preparation6. – Pre-Check Preparation

– Aircraft Flight ManualAircraft Flight Manual

– Manufacturer’s technical manualsManufacturer’s technical manuals

– Operator’s technical notes, checklists, etc.Operator’s technical notes, checklists, etc.

– Online technical resourcesOnline technical resources

Attempt to give any/all technical information Attempt to give any/all technical information necessary for the SAE to prepare, i.e. the necessary for the SAE to prepare, i.e. the SAE needs to be familiar with the aircraft SAE needs to be familiar with the aircraft

6. – Pre-Check Preparation6. – Pre-Check Preparation

– Traditional Q & A oral document is the bestTraditional Q & A oral document is the best

– Notes from reading flight/tech manualsNotes from reading flight/tech manuals

– Highlights descriptions/numbers in manualsHighlights descriptions/numbers in manuals

– If the SAE agrees for you to conduct a If the SAE agrees for you to conduct a systems, procedures, limitation briefing, they systems, procedures, limitation briefing, they will know enough to be able to intervene with will know enough to be able to intervene with questions, showing that they’ve pre-studiedquestions, showing that they’ve pre-studied

The SAE will study and prepare the oral examThe SAE will study and prepare the oral exam

6. – Pre-Check Preparation6. – Pre-Check PreparationSYSTEMS What is the primary mission of White Knight 2?

to serve as the launch aircraft for SpaceShipTwo (SS2), a reusable suborbital space plane.

Why can WK2 be used for crew training for Space Ship 2 (SS2)?Near-duplicate cockpit ergonomics to SS2Hi-key capture during glide descentLanding pattern familiarity and sight picture

What is the maximum payload capability?Accommodation for winged payloads with weights of 30,000 lbs, up to 35,000lbs (with reduced margins)

What is the maximum gross weight of WK2 when carrying a full-up space ship?

60,000 lb by design, 70,000 lb (with reduced margins) What is the maximum G load, +/-, with a 35,000 lb payload?

-1 to +2.5 g’s With 35,000 lbs. Payload What is the Vne of WK2?

180 KEAS per manual, but currently limiting to 170 KEAS What is the Mmo of WK2?

0.65 IMN by design, but current limit is 0.62 IMN What is the Vdive of WK2?

225 KEAS But Not tested. Max speed to date is 195 KEAS. At 60,000 lb, what is the 1 G stall speed?

106 KEAS, but at high weights hit 20 deg AOA before stall. What is the minimum crew required for WK2?

Two Crew (Dual Controls) How high is the current operating altitude limit of the WK2

Operating Altitude = SL to 53,000 ft. (or higher, if engine certification allows)

Can WK2 be flown IFR?Yes, Operating Limitations allow for Day and Night VFR and IFR

Can WK2 be operated in icing conditions?Not intended for flight in icing conditions

Was WK2 built with lightening strike protection?NO

You take WK2 cross country. How wide does a hangar door have to open to allow WK2 to be rolled in?

140 feet minimum What is the normal maximum landing weight of WK2?

Maximum Landing Weight (10 fps descent) = 48,500 lbs, but greater if <5fps at TD.

SAE will study up SAE will study up and prepare an and prepare an oral examoral exam

7. – Checkride Conduct7. – Checkride Conduct Introductory Consideration…Introductory Consideration…

– The SAE will ensure that the you fully The SAE will ensure that the you fully understand the implication of them not being understand the implication of them not being qualified or experienced in the subject qualified or experienced in the subject “strange” aircraft“strange” aircraft

7. – Checkride Conduct7. – Checkride Conduct SAE will conduct a credible Oral ExamSAE will conduct a credible Oral Exam

– SAE will be prepared for and administer a SAE will be prepared for and administer a credible oral exam reinforcing with the credible oral exam reinforcing with the Experimental Aircraft community the validity Experimental Aircraft community the validity of the process the SAEs have to offer. of the process the SAEs have to offer.

7. – Checkride Conduct7. – Checkride Conduct Flight Portion ConsiderationsFlight Portion Considerations

– SAE will use checklist to ensure that you are SAE will use checklist to ensure that you are accomplishing procedures correctlyaccomplishing procedures correctly

– SAE may “ghost ride” and/or intervene if an SAE may “ghost ride” and/or intervene if an obvious unsafe situation arises, i.e. unsafe obvious unsafe situation arises, i.e. unsafe stall recovery inputs…..EVEN THO they are stall recovery inputs…..EVEN THO they are not qualified in the aircraftnot qualified in the aircraft

– If in a non-pilot crew seat, or ground If in a non-pilot crew seat, or ground observed, SAE may intervene verbally or observed, SAE may intervene verbally or with a radio transmission…..for safetywith a radio transmission…..for safety

7. – Checkride Conduct7. – Checkride Conduct Flight Portion ConsiderationsFlight Portion Considerations

– Other than the considerations just addressed, Other than the considerations just addressed, the flight portion of the FAA practical or 61.58 the flight portion of the FAA practical or 61.58 exam in your aircraft in which the SAE is not exam in your aircraft in which the SAE is not qualified or holding LOA for examining qualified or holding LOA for examining authority, will not be notably different than an authority, will not be notably different than an exam in any other aircraft in which exam in any other aircraft in which qualification existsqualification exists

8. – Post Checkride8. – Post Checkride Debriefing ConsiderationsDebriefing Considerations

– SAE will conduct a debriefing as would SAE will conduct a debriefing as would normally by done for an aircraft in which the normally by done for an aircraft in which the SAE is qualified.SAE is qualified.

– Don’t discount their ability/authority to Don’t discount their ability/authority to properly evaluate/debrief you because of not properly evaluate/debrief you because of not being qualified in the aircraft being qualified in the aircraft

– A debrief with AFS-830 will be done, A debrief with AFS-830 will be done, particularly if the check was done on a new particularly if the check was done on a new “type” being introduced to the community“type” being introduced to the community

9. – Summary9. – Summary Pertinent Points to Know/Remember:Pertinent Points to Know/Remember:

– ““Strange” Aircraft – No SAE currently qualifiedStrange” Aircraft – No SAE currently qualified

– Currently numerous “Strange”, Prop and JetCurrently numerous “Strange”, Prop and Jet

– Request may go to SAE or AFS-830Request may go to SAE or AFS-830

– AFS-830 may choose SAE for the examAFS-830 may choose SAE for the exam

– SAE MUST make formal request to AFS-830SAE MUST make formal request to AFS-830

– There is no “blanket authorization” for “Strange”There is no “blanket authorization” for “Strange”

– Someone in aircraft MUST be authorized PICSomeone in aircraft MUST be authorized PIC

– If LOA req’d, you must get from FSDO….EarlyIf LOA req’d, you must get from FSDO….Early

9. – Summary9. – Summary Pertinent Points to Know/Remember:Pertinent Points to Know/Remember:

– SAE may have to recommend (8710) and checkSAE may have to recommend (8710) and check

– Coordinate with AFS-830 and OKC for new “type” Coordinate with AFS-830 and OKC for new “type”

– Offer SAE any available technical infoOffer SAE any available technical info

– SAE will prepare a credible oral exam/reviewSAE will prepare a credible oral exam/review

– Flight – SAE prepped to conduct as if qualifiedFlight – SAE prepped to conduct as if qualified

– Flight – SAE prepped to intervene for safety Flight – SAE prepped to intervene for safety

– Postflight – Conducts debrief as normally donePostflight – Conducts debrief as normally done

– SAE will contact AFS-830 with issues/questionsSAE will contact AFS-830 with issues/questions

10. – Conclusion10. – Conclusion Administration of an FAA practical or 61.58 Administration of an FAA practical or 61.58

exam in a “Strange” aircraft is considerably exam in a “Strange” aircraft is considerably more involved than the SAE going out and more involved than the SAE going out and doing a garden variety check in something doing a garden variety check in something they have been doing for some time. The they have been doing for some time. The key to your success is to approach the key to your success is to approach the situation professionally, and to prepare situation professionally, and to prepare accordingly. If done properly, the you will accordingly. If done properly, the you will realize and appreciate the process by realize and appreciate the process by which the SAEs do what they do…..which the SAEs do what they do…..

QUESTIONS?QUESTIONS?

LetLet’’s go git some “Strange”!s go git some “Strange”!

Documents

2015 CJAA CONVENTION CHECKRIDE WITH NON-QUAL’D SAE