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Flyback Senior Member True WatchGeek Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Northern CA Posts: 20,915 Real Name: Brad In addition to all of them having the same case, all but one of these watches uses the ETA- 2824-2 movement. There are obvious variations in the bezel, dial, hands and bracelets that are used giving each watch a bit of a different twist. BTW: Be sure to check out Dave’s LWIG thread - http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=146172 I also found a lume shot of Dave's ARTEGO watch elsewhere on the web.
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Flyback
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2000M Dive watches from 11 different makers that are all basically kissing cousins.
Dave (soberdave09) posted a LWIG thread today showing off a new 2000M meter diver he just
picked up - the ARTEGO SEAKING 2000M. A great looking watch with a very cool looking
blue dial. As I looked at his thread it occurred to me that the case and bezel were the same ones
used on the Deep Blue Master 2000. After commenting on his beautiful new diver, I went on a
hunt to find other watches using the same case and came up with more than I thought I would,
the results are posted below.
BTW: Be sure to check out Dave’s LWIG thread -
http://watchgeeks.net/showthread.php?t=146172
In addition to all of them having the same case, all but one of these watches uses the ETA-
2824-2 movement. There are obvious variations in the bezel, dial, hands and bracelets that are
used giving each watch a bit of a different twist.
I’m going to start off the lineup with the watch that Dave posted today with a picture borrowed
from his thread.
ARTEGO SEAKING 2000M
Movement: ETA 2824-2
Price: $690.00
I also found a lume shot of Dave's ARTEGO watch elsewhere on the web.
Of course our beloved Deep Blue Master 2000 needs to be included!
Deep Blue Master 2000
Movement: Swiss; ETA 2824-2
Price: $660 at the Deep Blue Website, around $500 when featured on ShopNBC
Schaumburg AQM II 2000M
Movement: SW200 SWISS MADE C.O.S.C. CHRONOMETER or Base movement
Price: 890 euros for a base sw200 and 1190 euros for the COSC
Debaufre Triton 2000M
Movement: ETA-2824-2
Price: $850
Kemmner Octopus 2000
Movement: Swiss; ETA 2824-2
Price: $600
Wilson Watch Works 2000M
Movement: ETA 2824-2
Price: $600 (this was from 1 year ago. Couldn't find anything more recent.)
Arctos SEKM 2000m
Movement: ETA-2824-2
Price: $1,695
SONIC BARRACUDA 2000M
Movement ETA 2824-2
Price: 699,00 EUROS
Aeronautec Automatic Explorer ANT-1008-SSOBL-BRC
Movement: ETA 2824-2
Price: $ 545.99 (currently on sale)
Zenton M45 2000m Diver
Movement: ETA 2824-2
Price: $888
Helson Shark Diver 2000M
Movement: ETA 2824-2
Price: 699.00
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#2
Yesterday, 01:03 PM
soberdave09
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yep,they all use the same FACTORIES for there cases.i think there in china __________________
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#3
Yesterday, 01:04 PM
dnellab
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There was a thread a couple months ago about all these dive watch cases being made in the same
factory! Can't find it,maybe you can dig it up Brad?
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#4
Yesterday, 01:07 PM
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So my question: which one is cheapest? Since they're all so darn similar, I want the least
expensive version
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#5
Yesterday, 01:10 PM
watchdude1
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Wow...very interesting!!
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#6
Yesterday, 01:10 PM
Braatzman
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Can't argue against your proof. Clearly a very popular style for dive watches.
Thanks for sharing.
With an attitude of gratitude,
Nathan
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#7
Yesterday, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkromer
so my question: Which one is cheapest? Since they're all so darn similar, i want the least
expensive version
i think deep blue is probably the cheapest __________________
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#8
Yesterday, 01:13 PM
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If you look at the crown guards, the Artego and Arctos appear to have the exact same case. The
others look like they share DB's case.
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#9
Yesterday, 01:16 PM
watchdude1
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They ALL look really cool and IMO...that's great. I LOVE the 3 DB's I have and REALLY love
the price points.
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#10
Yesterday, 01:23 PM
reliefcp
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Nice detective work Brad! I think the 1000m shares its case too but I havent done the research
on it.
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#11
Yesterday, 01:31 PM
RKD0110
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Brad,
Thanks for taking your time to post some interesting info, really appreciate your input here.
Even though your pics have driven me to purchase way too many watches !
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#12
Yesterday, 01:31 PM
bxa67
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Yes great watch, made by FullSwing CO, in HK, great values etc!!! I have the Deep Blue 2k
Diver & its a great value
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#13
Yesterday, 01:37 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxa67
Yes great watch, made by FullSwing CO, in HK, great values etc!!! I have the Deep Blue 2k
Diver & its a great value
Seems like bxa67 has pointed to the possible source of all the madness.
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#14
Yesterday, 01:40 PM
Ronko Man
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WOW kissing cousins for sure!
Thanks for the pics & info! :-)
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#15
Yesterday, 01:46 PM
bxa67
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yes the cat is out of the bag, some get that watches all done by them & some Like Deufare get
them cased in Jura Switzerland to say Swiss made, great watches from whom ever you buy them
from!! NOW LETS TEST ONE IN 2000m DEEP water to see whats going on, LOL
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#16
Yesterday, 01:49 PM
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$200 is a much better value. Did the geek that previously posted this website ever get the watch
he ordered? Does anyone know?
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#17
Yesterday, 01:52 PM
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Wow, google Fullswing watch. A bit of an education. At least we get to see the factory!
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#18
Yesterday, 01:56 PM
soberdave09
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MY 2000m DIVE TEAM
MY 2500M
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#19
Yesterday, 01:59 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhbinwc
Wow, google Fullswing watch. A bit of an education. At least we get to see the factory!
Looks to be a modern facility.
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#20
Yesterday, 02:00 PM
bxa67
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where did you see a $200 price????
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#21
Yesterday, 02:16 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bxa67
where did you see a $200 price????
If that is the wholesale cost, I hope he has lots of friends. There's a 100 piece minimum order.
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#22
Yesterday, 02:16 PM
Rog1
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Great thread .....and a nice look inside a watch shop.
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#23
Yesterday, 02:19 PM
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I don't believe that each watch requires a 100 piece minimum order.
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#24
Yesterday, 02:23 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmac
I don't believe that each watch requires a 100 piece minimum order.
Well . . . that's what Fullswing says it is. You could always contact them to see if they've
changed their policy. Keep in mind this is a manufacturing company, not simply a wholesaler.
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#25
Yesterday, 02:31 PM
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Very interesting post- Thanks!
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Very informative! Thanks for the share! __________________
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#27
Yesterday, 03:32 PM
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Not bad. For $20k we can start our own watch company. Figure another $20k - $30k for
customization, shipping, customs duties, business registrations, etc., so call it a minimum $50k
investment for our own "Geekmaster" watch brand - 1st model, the "2000m Seageek"!
Whaddaya think?
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#28
Yesterday, 03:34 PM
VIETVET68
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Brad thanks for all the info.
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#29
Yesterday, 03:41 PM
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Very informative thread Brad. You are the master of "google" searches. hehe
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#30
Yesterday, 03:41 PM
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Thanks Brad,Great info,I believe I'll stick with Deep Blue,The cases may be The same,The
People behind The Product is what really counts to me.
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#31
Yesterday, 03:42 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscar1
Thanks Brad,Great info,I believe I'll stick with Deep Blue,The cases may be The same,The
People behind The Product is what really counts to me.
Words of wisdom for sure!
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#32
Yesterday, 03:43 PM
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Very informative, Thank you and interesting!
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#33
Yesterday, 03:47 PM
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Great thread!! Good Food for thought!!!
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#34
Yesterday, 04:03 PM
reliefcp
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Makes you wonder how some can sell them as Swiss Made.
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#35
Yesterday, 04:16 PM
strutn45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reliefcp
Makes you wonder how some can sell them as Swiss Made.
Current rule is still only 51% to be cased in Switzerland to say "SWISS MADE" on a
watch. __________________
Da 3 Omego's
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#36
Yesterday, 04:17 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
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Makes you wonder how some can sell them as Swiss Made.
Very easily done under the federation guidelines.
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#37
Yesterday, 04:19 PM
reliefcp
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Yea I was just wondering outloud. It makes you think on the pricing though.
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#38
Yesterday, 04:25 PM
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One hundred piece minimum....Did somebody say group buy?
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#39
Yesterday, 04:26 PM
AZinNJ
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DB seems to be doing a great job, and their price points are great..And DB has quality people
running the operation...
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#40
Yesterday, 04:28 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmarc
One hundred piece minimum....Did somebody say group buy?
I've been through this on another shared interest forum that has nothing to do with watches.
When you begin to think about all the logistics and associated liability of doing this it becomes
clear it isn't at all practical.
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#41
Yesterday, 04:29 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
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DB seems to be doing a great job, and their price points are great..And DB has quality people
running the operation...
Agreed in spades on all counts!
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#42
Yesterday, 04:42 PM
streekingeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback
Looks to be a modern facility
before you know it they will be taking over, walking to the games doing calculas as we are a
nation of wusses.
jk.
it is a very modern looking facility.
gk.
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#43
Yesterday, 05:17 PM
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Maybe it's me but the Artego and the Zenton cases look similar while the others appear to be
more tapered. It could be the angle of the photo or the Scotch I am drinking right now????
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#44
Yesterday, 05:19 PM
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they all seem the same to me.
anything well built and to make the cost reasonable,
makes me think i can deal with it.
gk.
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#45
Yesterday, 05:23 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PUCKSK8R
Maybe it's me but the Artego and the Zenton cases look similar while the others appear to be
more tapered. It could be the angle of the photo or the Scotch I am drinking right now????
Take a few more sips Darren, they'll look better all the time!
Kidding aside, I think it's the camera angle that's making them look that way.
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#46
Yesterday, 05:34 PM
socrates
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Great looking watches!
Thanks Brad I'll take them all. __________________
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Last edited by socrates; Yesterday at 05:35 PM. Reason: spelling
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#47
Yesterday, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotspur
Not bad. For $20k we can start our own watch company. Figure another $20k - $30k for
customization, shipping, customs duties, business registrations, etc., so call it a minimum $50k
investment for our own "Geekmaster" watch brand - 1st model, the "2000m Seageek"!
Whaddaya think?
I'm working on winning the lottery... stay tuned...
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#48
Yesterday, 06:30 PM
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Awesome Homework
You get an "A"....................Thanks for the info.
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#49
Yesterday, 07:16 PM
kramer5150
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fascinating thread, thanks for sharing!!
Threads like this are why WG is the best watch enthusiast forum on the www.
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#50
Yesterday, 07:21 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintlock
Awesome Homework
You get an "A"....................Thanks for the info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer5150
fascinating thread, thanks for sharing!!
Threads like this are why WG is the best watch enthusiast forum on the www.
Thanks guys. I appreciate it.
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#52
Yesterday, 09:26 PM
doublel
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Brad, Great info and very informative. Thanks as always!!!
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#53
Yesterday, 10:00 PM
goldie'sdad
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Very interesting ... Thanks for posting
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#54
Yesterday, 10:01 PM
lsolienj
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Brad,
This is a great post! very informative and appreciate the pic's of the factory!
IMO, I'll stick with Deep Blue and Stan, he has a fantastic & honorable reputation in the watch
industry. Plus from all the WG's comments on this forum, you can be assured that Stan will take
care of you after the sale. He stand behind every watch sale, that huge in my book!
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#55
Yesterday, 10:05 PM
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I will agree this is an informative and interesting thread. Fascinating seeing the pictures of the
factory and machinery in it. Seems to be a well trained and skilled workforce as well. Thanks for
sharing Brad.
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#56
Yesterday, 10:15 PM
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great detective work Brad ,All I have to do now is Morgage the house buy 25000 watches and
put Evil Empire on them and get on the shop LOL pretty cool factory though maybe ill take a
vacation there .
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#57
Yesterday, 10:26 PM
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All joking aside Brad ,Every watch That I own .The case probably came from that same
block.Then some sent to Switzerland to have the movement put in.Oh well they do make a nice
watch and Stan did all the legwork.But thanks again for the cool info where do you find all this
stuff LOL Man you are the true watchgeek(I mean that in a good way)
Scott
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#58
Yesterday, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Empire
All joking aside Brad ,Every watch That I own .The case probably came from that same
block.Then some sent to Switzerland to have the movement put in.Oh well they do make a nice
watch and Stan did all the legwork.But thanks again for the cool info where do you find all
this stuff LOL Man you are the true watchgeek(I mean that in a good way)
Scott
Thanks Scott. Nothing like a day off, an interesting question in hand, a fast computer and my
friend Google to get the job done.
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#59
Yesterday, 11:59 PM
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If it came down to it I like the multi link bracelet of the Artego and Debaufre best.
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#60
Today, 12:06 AM
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Either it was a very boring day, or you just have way too much time on your hands. That's an
awful lot of great info you posted, Brad. I remember reading somewhere on the forum that "the
search tool is your friend". And I know you practice what you preach. I always thought it was
just me that thought so many divers looked alike...now I know why.
Thanks for the research and one of the best threads ever posted!
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#61
Today, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmac
I don't believe that each watch requires a 100 piece minimum order.
For manufacturing, 100 piece order is a pretty low minimum.
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#62
Today, 06:38 AM
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Great post Brad!! I think there are 1 or 2 more in this group (Helson comes to mind).
I think it is important to note that folks selling these variations assume a lot of financial risk as
much of their costs are likely upfront before the watches are sold and there is also their after sale
cost if anything was to go wrong with any watches.
So you will certainly see price differences between the manufacturing cost and the final price we
end up paying as the seller has to add many other variables to their final price (inventory costs,
branding costs, aftersale costs, payment for their time invested, staff costs, and so on). Deep
Blue, with their partnership with Shopnbc, has done the best job at offering the best prices for
this level of watch.
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#63
Today, 07:21 AM
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Very nice post and detective work. While I own a DB and love it, it makes me appreciate the
companies that design and manufacture their own unique components. I also love the idea of
some geeks getting together and putting out their own WG labeled brand. I would SO buy one.
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#64
Today, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by toyaddict007
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#65
Today, 09:38 AM
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I bet anything that the factory in the pics has no return policy - all items shipped as is. With that
said, the cost is probably so low, and the mark-up so relatively high, the cost of warranty work
for the reseller is minimal. Either replace the watch straight out or replace the movement for
$10-15. I would say that once the quality of the case assembly is established (and they all seem
to be the same so I would guess they are proven) the warranty and after sales costs are nothing.
Anyone want to help design a brand?
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#66
Today, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ky70
Great post Brad!! I think there are 1 or 2 more in this group (Helson comes to mind).
I think it is important to note that folks selling these variations assume a lot of financial risk as
much of their costs are likely upfront before the watches are sold and there is also their after
sale cost if anything was to go wrong with any watches.
So you will certainly see price differences between the manufacturing cost and the final price
we end up paying as the seller has to add many other variables to their final price (inventory
costs, branding costs, aftersale costs, payment for their time invested, staff costs, and so on).
Deep Blue, with their partnership with Shopnbc, has done the best job at offering the best
prices for this level of watch.
Agreed on all counts, and I went ahead and added the Helson Shark Diver to the group.
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#67
Today, 10:04 AM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gman66
Either it was a very boring day, or you just have way too much time on your hands. That's an
awful lot of great info you posted, Brad. I remember reading somewhere on the forum that
"the search tool is your friend". And i know you practice what you preach. I always thought it
was just me that thought so many divers looked alike...now I know why.
Thanks for the research and one of the best threads ever posted!
Thanks Gary, it was a bit of fun and I learned something along the way as well.
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#68
Today, 10:09 AM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhbinwc
I bet anything that the factory in the pics has no return policy - all items shipped as is. With
that said, the cost is probably so low, and the mark-up so relatively high, the cost of warranty
work for the reseller is minimal. Either replace the watch straight out or replace the movement
for $10-15. I would say that once the quality of the case assembly is established (and they all
seem to be the same so I would guess they are proven) the warranty and after sales costs are
nothing. Anyone want to help design a brand?
- I doubt that they sell their product as is, contract manufacturers by and large stand behind their
work.
- Replace an ETA 2824-2 for $10? Only in your dreams.
- If the product is reliable, which these have proven to be, I would agree that warranty costs
would be acceptably low, however the cost of doing business in general is greater than you may
think. When all is said and done at the prices these watches are selling for I'd say the margins are
normal for the industry.
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#69
Today, 10:15 AM
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I still would like to see a retail price comparison of all the watches shown.
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#70
Today, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glasetj
I still would like to see a retail price comparison of all the watches shown.
I didn't jot them down when I was doing my research, but from memory they ranged between
$600 to $1,700 +/- with Deep Blue being the least expensive when featured on ShopNBC. If you
wanted to know for sure, all you'd have to do is google the name of the watch from the list I put
together.
EDIT: I did the research and placed the prices as I found them in my opening post.
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#71
Today, 11:12 AM
glasetj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback
I didn't jot them down when I was doing my research, but from memory they ranged between
$600 to $900 +/- with Deep Blue being the least expensive when featured on ShopNBC. If you
wanted to know for sure, all you'd have to do is google the name of the watch from the list I
put together.
EDIT: I did the research and placed the prices as I found them in my opening post.
Sorry I need to read a little more. Looks like there are a few comparable in price to Deep Blue.
Thanks for the post... quit interesting
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#72
Today, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glasetj
Sorry I need to read a little more. Looks like there are a few comparable in price to Deep
Blue.
Thanks for the post... quit interesting
Retail to retail perhaps, but not when they're on ShopNBC.
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#73
Today, 11:14 AM
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The best thread of recent memory. Thanks Brad for taking us to the school of watch
manufacturing. I never would have thought to do this myself although I probably will start doing
a little poking around now.
Kudos sir.
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#74
Today, 02:43 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwatchmonster
The best thread of recent memory. Thanks Brad for taking us to the school of watch
manufacturing. I never would have thought to do this myself although I probably will start
doing a little poking around now.
Kudos sir.
Thanks for the kind words John.
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#75
Today, 02:44 PM
ky70
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Brad, you have outdone yourself here...there is some great info in your post. It's really cool to
see all these variations in one thread. Thanks for sharing your research with us.
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Wow all similar. Without the dials some couldn't even be told apart!
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#77
Today, 04:24 PM
cjwatch
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Superb and well done!
I do wish JS or one of our other resident Watchgeek experts would comment on your findings.
Without confirmation "our" concluisions remain speculation.
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#78
Today, 05:31 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjwatch
Superb and well done!
I do wish JS or one of our other resident Watchgeek experts would comment on your findings.
Without confirmation "our" concluisions remain speculation.
Comment on what perchance? The proof is in the pictures and the fact that the case is a generic
one made by Fullswing Ind. in Hong Kong available to anyone who can meet the minimum
purchase requirement of 100 pieces. IMHO, I don't see where I've speculated on anything.
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#79
Today, 07:21 PM
cjwatch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyback
Comment on what perchance? The proof is in the pictures and the fact that the case is a
generic one made by Fullswing Ind. in Hong Kong available to anyone who can meet the
minimum purchase requirement of 100 pieces. IMHO, I don't see where I've speculated on
anything.
You may be 100% accurate in your assessment. The cases do appear to be the same. But, I've
lived long enough to know that appearances can be deceiving. Expert confirmation would
corroborate your hypothesis. The pictures alone are insufficient evidence to conclude that the
Deep Blue and other watch brand cases are made by Fullswing.
You have demonstrated is that Fullswing makes watch cases that look like the cases used on the
brands in your pictures.
No matter what, you are still to be commended for your top notch research. Well done!
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#80
Today, 07:34 PM
Flyback
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjwatch
You may be 100% accurate in your assessment. The cases do appear to be the same. But, I've
lived long enough to know that appearances can be deceiving. Expert confirmation would
corroborate your hypothesis. The pictures alone are insufficient evidence to conclude that the
Deep Blue and other watch brand cases are made by Fullswing.
You have demonstrated is that Fullswing makes watch cases that look like the cases used on
the brands in your pictures.
No matter what, you are still to be commended for your top notch research. Well done!
I've very likely lived as long as you have, and on this matter, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
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#81
Today, 08:10 PM
gman66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjwatch
Superb and well done!
I do wish JS or one of our other resident Watchgeek experts would comment on your findings.
Without confirmation "our" concluisions remain speculation.
FYI CJ - there are many here on the forum who do regard Flyback as a resident expert. Very
many...
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