190- The Easiest Way to Track HRV, Sleep and …...30 pounds, 40 pounds in my first year of investment banking. And I'm 5 foot 5 and I weighed about 140 in college. So 30 pounds to

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Episode190:TheEasiestWaytoTrackHRV,Sleep

andMovementWiththeFounderofOura


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

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Katie:Helloandwelcometothe"WellnessMamaPodcast."I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.com,andIcannotwaittodiveintothisepisodebecausewe'regoingtogodeeponsleepandheartratevariabilityandhowI'musingsomethingcalledtheOuraringtohelptrackmyfertility.It'sgonnabesuperfascinating.IamherewithHarpreetwhoistheCEOofOuraHealthandthemakeroftheOuraring,whichisthesleepandactivitytrackerthatIpersonallyuse.PriortoOura,HarpreetwasaportfoliomanagerandananalystatahedgefundfornineyearsinNewYork.Andlikemystory,afterburningthecandleonbothends,heranintohealthissueswhichledhimdownthepathoflookinginwardandtryingtoimprovehisownhealth.Also,justaquicknote,we'regoingtotalkalotabouttheOuraring.Foranyonewho'sinterestedintryingit,it'stheoneIuse.Youcanusethediscountcodewellnessmamaatouraring.comtosave$50onanyoftheirrings.AndIhaveitandIloveit.ButHarpreet,welcomeandthanksforbeinghere.Harpreet:Katie,thankssomuchforhavingme.It'sanhonortobeon.Katie:Iamsoexcitedtojumpinbecausewearetalkingaboutsomeofmyfavoritetopics.Butfirstofall,Iwanttohearyourpersonalstorybecauseitsoundslikealotlikemethatyouranintosomehealthissuesthatledtoyoubasicallyfindingyourownanswersandtryingtodelveintohealthonyourown.Socanyoutellusthatpartofthestory?


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Harpreet:Yeah.Youknow,Iguess,upongraduatingcollege,IhadabunchofstudentdebtandIwantedtopayitoff.SoIremembergoingtothecareercenterinmycollegeandasking,"Hey,whichjobspaythemostbecauseIhaveabunchofdebtandIwanttopayitoff?"Well,theysaid,"Actually,ourcareers,whatwefindforouralumniandfinancetendtopaythemost."Andthatledmedownthepathofhonestlyinvestmentbankingandtheneventually,ahedgefund.But,youknow,thehoursarebrutal.Igotajob.Itallworkedout.And,youknow,Iwasagreatfundforalongtime,butIwouldsaythecontinualstress…Andforme,Iendeduptradingalotofstocksovernight,workingsortofEuropeanhoursandJapanesehours.Andovertime,thatreallyjustledtoalotofhealthissues.IthinkIgained30pounds,40poundsinmyfirstyearofinvestmentbanking.AndI'm5foot5andIweighedabout140incollege.So30poundsto40poundsisalotforme.Sothatactually,Ithink,startedmyquestontohealth.AndthemoreandmoreintimeIspendaboutit,themoreandmoreintimeIlistentopodcasts,youknow,podcastlikeyoursandotherpeopleoutthereinthehealthcommunity,themoreinspiredIwastokeeplearningandkeepchangingandimproving.AndIguessonceIstarteddownthatroad,Istartedtorealize,that'sreallymypassion.Youknow,mystudentloanshadbeenpaidalongtimeago,anditwas,sortof,whatdoIwannafocusmylifeon?AndIthinkimprovingourhealthisjustsomethingthatyoukeeplearningandkeepimprovingon.Katie:Absolutely.AndIlovethatforyou,italmoststartedwithsomethingthattakesalotofusalongtimetogettoandthat'ssleepbecauseIfeellikeit'seasytowannaaddressthereallytangiblethingsthatareeasytoseelikenutritionandexercise.Butatleastfrommyownpersonalexperience,Iknowthatsleepisatleastasimportantasbothofthoseputtogether,ifnotmoreso.Anditseemslikesleepwasabigkeyforyouaswell.Sowhatstartedtheinterestinsleep?Becausethat'sobviouslyoncewestarttalkingaboutOuraring,there'sabunchofsleeptrackingthathappensthere.Butwhatreallysparkedyourinterestinthattobeginwith?Harpreet:Frankly,myfirstyearoutofcollege,whenIdidinvestmentbanking,Ithinkonaverage,Isleptaboutfourhoursanight,whichisn'tatypicalforthatprofessionwhich,bytheway,isinsane.Imean,IthinkifyouactuallylookattheWHO,theynowclassifyshiftworkasacarcinogenbecauseit'sthatharmfultoyourhealth.ButwhatIstarttofindoutis,youknow,Ididn'tdrasticallychangemydietthatmuch.Ifanything,IguessIwaseatingprobablylessbecauseIwasn'tasactive.ButIjustfoundthatIactuallystartedgettinggrayhairsattheageof22,whichisjustmind-blowingtome.AndIstartedjustgainingatonofweight.AndthemoreandmoreIlookedintothat,themoreandmoreitsortofledmetosleep.IknewIwasn'tgonnahavethetimetoexercisenortheenergy,butIwasjustwondering,evenwith,sortof,likepayingattentiontomydiet,eatingwholefoodsandnoteatingalotofjunkfood,Iwasgaining,literally,itwasalmostapoundaweek.Itwasprettyinsane.SoIthinkthat'swhenIstartedtorealizethatthere'ssomuchyoudon'tunderstandaboutyourbodyandyourbrainwhenyousleep.Andthatsortofwhatgotmefascinatedinthebeginning.Katie:That'sawesome.Okay.Solet'sgodeeperonsleep.IthinkalotofpeoplejustthinkofsleepingenerallikeI'meitherasleeporI'mawake.Butnow,especiallythroughwearingtheOuraring,I'mmuchmorecognizantofthedifferenttypesofsleepandthedifferentstagesofsleepandallthethingsthatgointoagoodsleep.Socanyoustartby,kindof,givingusanoverviewaboutthedifferentstagesofsleepandwhattheytellusaboutourhealth?


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Harpreet:Yeah,sure.SoIthinkifyoutakeastepbackandsortoflookathowsleepstaginghasbeendefined,it'sprimarilyintwocategories:REMandnon-REM.SoREMis,sortof,whenwedream.Iliketothinkaboutitthisway.It'sactuallywhenyourpre-frontalcortexisturnedoff.Sotothinkaboutthepartofyourbrainthat'sactingliketheinstructorthat'sputtingeverythingtogetherandtellingyourbodyandeverythingelsewhattofocusandwhen.SoREMsleepisthisfascinatingtimewhenactuallythechiefortheofficerinyourarmyofyourbodyandmindisturnedoff.Andbasically,yourbraincangowild.Sothat'swhenyoustartdreaming.ItturnsoutmostofourmemoryconsolidationactuallyhappensinREM.IwouldsaymostoftherepairtothebrainactuallyhappensinREM,thoughsomeofthathappensindeepaswell.Deepsleep,ontheotherhand,turnsoutactuallywhenprobablymostofourbodyisrepaired.Soformen,mostofourtestosteroneisactuallyreleasedindeepsleep.Forwomen,there'sequivalenthormonalchangesgoingonduringdeepsleepaswell.Andthen,theotherpartthat'sactuallyprettyinterestingis,let'ssay,thebraindoesclearitselfoftoxinsallduringsleep.Butonerecentstudypointedoutaboutayearagoisthatactually,beta-amyloids,whichisaplaquethat'sactuallylinkedtotheonsetofAlzheimer's,that'sclearedawayduringdeepsleepaswell.Butthoseare,sortof,thetwomainareasofsleepI'dsaymostpeoplefocuson,andsothedeepsleepandREMsleep.Andthosevaryactuallywithageaswell.Butthosearetwoofthestagesalongwithlightsleep,whichisbasicallyeverythingelseandthenawakewhichweclassifyallfourofthoseintheOuraring.Katie:Gotit.It'sbeenfascinating.I'mlookingatmyapprightnow.I'mlookingatthedifferentstagesofsleep.AndthepartIlovebecauseI'mtypeAisthatyouactuallygetasleepscore,soIcankindoftelleverydayifIsleptgoodornotandwhatthingsIcandotoimproveit.Ihavenotgottena100yet.Isitpossibletogeta100insleepscore?BecauseI’venotgottenityet.Harpreet:Peopleaskusthatallthetime.Ithinkafewpeoplehavegottena100.It'sreally,really,reallyhardthough,butwedohaveaconsistingcohortofpeoplehittinginthe90s.Katie:Ihitthe90s.Likelastnight,itwasa95andgotoveranhourofdeepsleep.Butit'sjustfascinatingtoseebecauseyoucouldactuallyseeavisualgraphofwhathappensasyou'resleeping.AndI'vealsonoticedpatternslikeonagoodnightofsleep,myrestingheartrateisinthe50sandIdon'twakeupandthere'salotofdeepsleep.ButifI,likeforinstance,drinktoomuchwineorgotobedtoolate,evenifIgetenoughsleep,thosethingsallchange.Soaretherepatternsthatyouguysseeinsleeptrackingthattendtocorrelatetolifestylefactorsatallorisitjust...Harpreet:Totally.Katie:Okay.Sowhataresomeofthosefactors?Harpreet:Ithinkgenerallyspeaking,it'snotjustfromourowndataweseethis,butalsofromtonsandtonsofstudiesthathavebeenprovenouttheredonewithfullpolysomnographyorhookeduptoyourbrain,EEGtestessentially,thatbasicallydeepsleepwillhappeninthefirsthalfofthenight.Youdogothroughstagesofsleep,somostpeoplewillsortofgofromalightsleep,you'llstayintherethewholetime.Remember,the


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brainisactuallylikecleaningitselfduringsleep.It'ssomethingto,sortof,pointoutthatourbodyhasalymphaticsystemthatweknowof.Butactuallyuntilrecently,peopledidn'tthinkthebrainhadalymphaticsystem.Butthere'sarecentdiscoveryactuallyaboutIthinkthreeyearsagothefirststudywasputout.AndthetermwasactuallycalledaglymphaticsystemwiththeG.Soyourbraingoesthroughthesecertainstagesandcertainordersonpurposefromwhatwecanunderstand.Butmostpeoplewillgointo,sortof,deepsleepinthefirsthalfofthenight.Typically,dependingonhowoldyouhave,you'llgetanywherefrom30minutes,but,youknow,ifyou'resortof…WhereI'dimaginemostofyouraudienceisintheir30sorearly40s.You'reprobablygonnagetcloserto40to50minutesofdeepsleep,andthat'llhappeninthefirsthalfofthenight.Andthen,thesecondhalfofthenight,mostpeoplewillgointovariedbetween,sortof,lightandREM.Sometimes,whenwewakeupwhenwefeelalittlebitgroggy,thatcanbebecauseyouralarmwentoffwhenyou'reinREMsleep.Asfarasotherfactorsthatwesee,oftentimes,you'llstarttolearnwhatyouraverageisofdeepsleep.Andyou'llstarttosortofrealizeohman,ifIgot30minutesofdeepsleep,you'reaskingyourselfexactlywhatyoujustdid.Whathappened?WhatdidIdoyesterday?Whatcould'vechangedthat?Sometimes,you'llgetnodeepsleep.IfoundcertaintimeswhenI'msuperstressed,orespeciallyifalcoholisinvolved,andevenfrankly,thetypeofalcoholcanvarytheeffects,too.Thatmighthaveveryloworverylittledeepsleep.Sometimes,afterextremelyhardworkouts,thosedaysI'llfindthatactuallymydeepsleepincreases.REMforme,it'sbeenhardertonail.IdotendtonoticeactuallythatitappearsthatIhavereallyhighinmentalactivity,alotoflikefocusinggoingonthatItendtogetmoreREMsleep.Which,youknow,Idon'tthinkthere'sbeenstudiesonthisprovenyet,butoneofthetheoriesisourbrainisactuallyprettysmart.Ourbrainwillrecognizeactuallyhowmuchofthedifferentstagesweneeddependingonwhat'sgoingoninourlife.Idothinkit'dbeprettycooltogetsomestudiestoshowthatmaybecertainexercisesorcertaintypesofstrenuousactivityactuallyhelpspromotedeepsleep.Ithinkthat'sbeendone,butIhaven'tseenanygoodoneslatelyandthenviceversaforREM.WedoknowthatmostofourmemoryrecallishappeninginREM.Actually,oneofthecoolthingsinREMisyourbrainwillactuallyspeedupcertainmemoriesthroughoutthedaybyupto3x.Soifyou'retryingtolearnanewtaskortryingtomemorizesomething,yourbrainactuallyconsolidatesthatduringtheREMprocess,andwillactually...It'sworkingalmostthreetimesfasterthanduringtheday.Katie:Thatisfascinating.Andforparentslistening,somethingimportanttoknowforourkidsistheirstudyinginschool.AndIknowjustfrompersonalexperience,IcanlookbackandthinkhowmuchbetterIdidatdifferenttimesinschoolifIwassleepingenoughandwasn'tstressed.Thatmakestotalsense.Isthereanyscienceabouthowmuchofeachofthesetypesofsleepweneedinaoptimalenvironment?Harpreet:Thereis.There'sactuallyabunchofstudiesouttherethathavesortofshownthenorms.Idon'trememberallthedataoffthetopofmyhead,butbasically,whenyou'resortofunder20,yourbodyisstillgrowingquiteabitsoyoutendtogetthemostdeepsleep.Imean,Ithinkgenerally,it'slikeyou'llbegettingalittlebitoveranhour,ashighas2hoursundertheageof20.DeepsleepisnormallyIguesshowwefeelalotthenextdayintermsofhowrefreshedwefeel.Ittendstocorrelatewiththat.SoIthinktheterm"sleeplikeababy"probablycomesfromthatalittlebit.You'reprobablygettingatonofdeepsleep.


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REMsleep,Iwouldsayundertheageof20,Ithinkthedataisprobablyaroundalittlebitmorethanathirdofyournight.Soifyouthinkaboutprobablyalittlebitmorethantwohours,maybeuptothreehours.Andthen,bothofthosegodownwithage.That'stheinterestingthing.Sowedoknowasweagethatactuallyoursleepcyclestendtogetquiteaffected.BothREManddeepsleeptendtogodown.Ithinkbythetimeyou're60,mostpeoplearegettingonaveragelessthan30minutesofdeepsleep.So,Iknowittendstoprogressasyouage.Idon'thaveallthedatainfrontofme,butI'msurewecanfindsomestudiesandpostlinksintheshownotes.Katie:Awesome.We'llmakesuretoincludethose.Aretherereliablewaysthatyouguyshaveseenin...I'massumingyouhaveadecentamountofdatanowwitheverybodytrackingtheirsleep.AretherewaysthatarereliabletolikebasicallyincreaseREMsleeporincreasedeepsleepthatseemtoworkacrossallsegmentsofthepopulationoristhatmoreofapersonalizedthing?Harpreet:Idefinitelythinkthere'ssomepersonalizedthingsthatenduphappening.Butyeah,wedefinitelyhavesomedatawethinkandfrankly,we'retryingtoshare,gonnastartsharingalotofthisdataonoursocialandonourbloggoingforwardaboutthingswedofind.Iwouldsayoneofthemostimportantthingsisactuallyconsistencyofsleeptime,likewhattimedoyougotobedeverynightandwaketime.Whattimeyouwakeupandyoufirstgetexposedtolight.Thattendstoactuallyimpactthequalityofoursleepquiteabit,notjusttheduration.Ithinkitactuallygetsbacktotheprinciplesofcircadianrhythms.Sojustaboutactuallyayearago,finally,aNobelPrizewasawardedinthis.Butourbodyactuallyoperatesandourmindaroundsomethingcalledourcircadianclock.Soit'sactually,sortof,whatgovernswhichhormonesarereleasedwhen,whenyoushouldfallasleep,whenyoushouldwakeup.Itturnsoutthatthisactuallyimpactsmostofthecellsinourbody.Soanythingthatsortofhelpssetaconsistenttimehelpskeepthatclockincheck,sojustfallingasleepatthesametime.Andweactuallyarejusttryingtogiverecommendationsforpeoplewhenthatoptimaltimeisforthembecauseeveryonehasadifferenttimeforthat.Sowe'restartingtogivesomeofthatinformationintheapp.Ithinkoneoftheotherconsistentthingswefindfranklyismealtimingandalcohol.Sooftentimes,weeatprettyclosenowintoday'ssociety,reallyclosetobedtime.Fromeverythingwe'veseen,that'sprobablynothealthyforus.Actually,therewasafascinatingworkbeingdonebySatchinPandaoutattheSalkInstitute.Ithinkoneofthethingsthattheyfoundactuallyisyourglucoseresponsetocertaintypesoffoodwillvaryuponthetimeofday.Andbasically,whattheyshowedisthataftersundown,ourbody'sresponsetosugarlike,much,muchworse.Andpartofthatisactuallythoughtthatourpancreas,whichhelpsregulateourinsulinandassumingbasicallyhelpingcontrolourglucoselevelsinourbody,basicallystartstoshutdownoncemelatoninisreleasedinthebody.SoIwouldsaymealtiming,fromwhatwe'reseeinginourdataandwhatwe'refindingfromresearchhasahuge,hugeimpact.Wegenerallyrecommendyoushouldn'tgotobedtoofullortoohungry.Inreality,thisendsupmeaningpeopleshouldprobablyfinishdinnerthreehours,andIthinkfromsomeofourdatawe'veevenseenfourhours,helpsquiteabit.


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Iknowthere'sarecentstudydoneinintermittentfastingandthetimingofthewindow.Andwhattheyfoundisacohortthatactuallyfinishedtheirmealsbefore5:00endedupdoingmuchbetterin,sortof,allmetabolicfunctionthanacohortthatendedupfinishingtheirmealsat9:00.SoIthinkwe'regonnafindmoreandmoreresearchcomingbackto,sortof,whatourgrandparentsusedtosayofeatingearlyandgoingtobedearlyhelpsquiteabit.Theotheroneisalcohol.Ithinktimingofalcoholandwhattypesofalcoholweknowhasabigimpact.SoIthinkwehavefoundfromourdatapeoplereactdifferentlytodifferenttypesofspiritsandbeverages,sothat'sprettyinteresting.Andthenoutsideofthat,Iwouldsayit'sgettingenoughlightexposure.We'reinasocietytodaywherewedon'tgettheamountoflightthatweusedto.Somosttime,ifyouthinkbackhistorically,wedidn'thavelightbulbs.Wewere,sortof,wakingandgoingtobedwiththesun.Andgettingthatlightexposureinthemorningactuallyhelpsjumpstartthatcircadianclockagainandsetsthatscheduleeveryday.So,intoday'ssociety,whenyou'resortofoverblownbyalltypesoflightincludingbluelightatnight,whichdisturbsoursleepandmelatoninrelease,itendsuphavingahugeimpactonhowwesleep.Katie:Ithinkyou'resorightandI'mhopingthatthat'sgonnabeanewwaveofresearchthatwe'regonnastarttounderstand.Ithinkit'seasytoignorelightbecausewedon'tfeeltheimmediateeffectslikewedowhenweeatfoodthatmakesusfeelbad.ButIreallydothinkthisisgonnabevitaltounderstandingandimprovinghealthinthenext20years.IknowespeciallynowthatIcantrackit,it'sfascinatingtoseeifIdostayuplateandwatchamovieandit'sgotbluelight,Idon'tsleepaswell.AndwhenIdothingsbetter,andIgetbrightlightinthemorningandkeeplowlightatnight,Isleepbetter.It'sjustfascinatingtoactuallystarttobeableseethatdatathatIknowhowbasedonmyfield.Andasfarasthatsense,mypersonalsleeptips,IknowforsurethatwhenI,forinstance,wearbluelight-blockingglassesorjustdon'thavebrightlightsonatallatnightinourhouse.AndwhenIhaveblackoutcurtainsinourroom,Isleepsomuchbetter.Isthereanyrelationoftemperatureandsleepthatyouhavenoticed?SoI'vebeensleepingonsomethingcalledaChiliPadforacoupleofyears,andIdefinitelyfeellikeIsleepbetter.ButI'mcuriousthatthere'satemperaturecomponenttosleepthat'sbeenstudiedatall.Harpreet:Theredefinitelyhasbeen.That'sactuallyanothergoodonetopointout.Sorry.Ididn'tmentionthatbefore.Butyes,temperaturetotallyhelpshowwesleep.Soagain,ifyouthink,sortof,historically,whenmenandwomenweresleepingoutside,theearthactuallycoolsatnight,right?Andsamething,itheatsupduringtheday.Soitturnsoutthatourbodiesprobablyhaveadaptedtorecognizingthatcoolingasasignofwhentohavecertaintypesof,orwhentosleepandhonestly,probablyresponsibleforreleasingcertainhormoneswhenwesleep.Soyeah,whatwe'veseenfromourdataandfrankly,IlovetheChiliPad,too.Iuseit.Alotofourteamdoesaswell.Andyeah,wehavefoundthatitactuallymakesahugeimpact.Wewillbegatheringsomemoredataonthatandhopingtoreleaseitinoneofourblogpostsoronsocialgoingforward.AndI'mactuallyreallyexcited.We'regonnabedoingastudyinthefallorwinterthisyearalongwithtwoprofessorsatuniversitiesthatI


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can'tmentionyet.Wewillbecapturingdataonhunter-gatherersinAfricawiththeOuraringbecause,youknow,someofthemarestillsleepingoutsideorclosetotheground.Andweknowthatactuallyhasahugeimpactonthequalityofsleep.Temperaturecontrol,generally,thecoolerthebetter.Iwouldsay65to67degreesiswhatwe'vesortofseenaslikeanoptimaltemperature.Ithinkwarmerthanthat,again,somepeoplearedifferent.Somepeopleactuallydobetterinalittlebitofawarmertemperature,butthatissomethingweshowintheOuraring.Andyoucanstarttocorrelatethatandexperimentwith,sortof,lowertemperaturesandseeifthathelpsactuallyimproveyoursleep.Katie:Verycool.Icannotwaittoseethatdataonhunter-gatherertribes.AndbeforewegoanyfurtherbecauseIwannagetalittledeeponthingslikeHRVandfertilitytracking.First,I'dloveforyoutoexplaintoanyonewho'snotfamiliarwithithowtheOuraringworksandwhatit'stracking.BecauseIthinkthere'salotoffitnesstrackersouttherethattrackyourmovementoryournumberofsteps.And,tome,thiswasacompletelyrevolutionarynewwaytotrackthings,andIwasshockedhowmuchIendedupusingitandhowmuchI'veintegrateditinmydailylife.Butcanyoukindofgiveusthebroadlevelofeverythingittracks?Harpreet:Yeah,sure.I'lltakeastepbackevenfurtherthanthat.Ourviewiswewantedtofocusonsleepoversomeoftheactivitymetricsthatwearableshavesortofbeenknowntodobecausesleepimpactshowyoufeeleveryday.And,honestly,ifyoulookatthepopulationstatsoutthere,99.9percentofthepopulationsleepseverynight,butonlyabout15percentofthepopulationworksouteveryday.Sowejustthoughtit's,sortof,abiggerthingthatendsupimpactingeveryone.Soit'ssomethingthatwewantedtofocusonasacompany.Weactuallychosetheringformfactorfortworeasons.Youknow,Iwouldsaythefirstreasonwefocusedonitisbecauseofthesignalstrengthofyourpulse.So,youknow,itturnsoutineveryhospitalsortofusesthisfortrackingyourheartrateandyourSpO2aswell.Butthepulsefromyourfingers,ifyoulookat,sortof,theinsideofyourhandsonyourpalms,ismuch,muchstrongerthanthepulsefromyourwristwhereyourFitbitoryourwatchmightsit.Youknow,someofthestudieshaveshownthatit'sactuallyupto50times,ifnot100,timesstronger.Sothat'soneofthereasonswefocusedon,sortof,theringformfactorversusawrist-formfactororsomeoftheotheroptionoutthere.Ithinkthesecondthingwefoundisthatit'sreally,reallycomfortable.Mostpeopledon'tlikesleepingwithwatches.Weactuallychosetitaniumforourgen2ringtomaketheringaslightweightaspossible,soitdidn'treallydisturbanyonewhentheyslept.Andweactuallyalsochoseinfraredlightsinsteadof,sortof,greenLEDsonsomeofthesensors.Andthemainreasonissothatitdoesn'tdisturbyoursleep.AndalltheevidenceIwouldsayoninfraredlighthasbeenshownthatit'sproventobehealthyforthebodynotdamaging.Intermsofwhatwetrack,well,wetrackabunchofdifferentstuff.Sowetrackyourheartrate.Wetrackeverysinglebeatthroughoutthewholenight,andwe'resamplingthatheartrateat250hertzor250timesasecond.Thatendsupbeing10to20xbeingmorefrequentthan,let'ssay,youraveragewrist-basedwearable,andI'mnotgonnanamenames.Sowetrackeverysingleheartbeatandyourheartratevariabilityorthevariabilitybetweeneachofthosebeatsthroughoutthewholenight.Fromthatdata,wealsoderiverespiration,sothat'sanothermetricwetrack.WehavethreetemperaturesensorsinsidetheOuraring.Sowelookatchangesin,sortof,yourskin


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temperature,whichfunnyenoughinthefinger,tendstocorrelateextremelywellwithyourcoretemp.Soifyouthinkaboutifyou'rehotorcoldatnight,generally,youstickyourfeetoutoftheblanketandsamewithyourhands.Andso,youknow,ourextremitiesofourbodieshelpthemtoregulateourcore.Sowedoseechangesincoreextremelywell.Andthen,asfarasduringtheday,thingswetrack,wedotrack,sortof,stepsandalltheotherthingsthatotherwearablestrackaswell.Katie:It'sbeenfascinatingtosee,andanotherthingIloveisthefactthatIcouldgointoairplanemodebecausethatwasoneconcernIhadwithalotofthewearablesisthey'reconstantlyBluetoothenabled.Andsoyou'vegotBluetoothonyouallthetimeevenifyou'resleeping.AndEMAPSarecertainlyacontroversialtopic,butit'soneofthosethingsthatIfeltlikewedon'thavealltheresearchonyet.Andatleastduringsleep,it'ssomethingItrytoavoid.SoIlovethatthat'sanoption.You'retheonlyoneIfoundthathasthatability.IknowalotofhealthleadersareturningtoOuraringforthatreasonandalsobecauseofallthecoolsleepdata.ButyoumentionedHRVorheartratevariabilityalittlebit,andIwanttoreallydelveintothis.Soforanyonenotfamiliar,canyouexplainthisconcept,whatheartratevariabilityisandwhyit'simportant?Harpreet:Yeah.Ithinkit'sanewmetricthatpeoplearestartingtotrackthat'sgettingalotofattention,andIthinkitdeservesit.Soheartratevariabilityisactuallythevariationofeachheartbeat.Soifyouthinkaboutit,ifwe'resittinghereandtalkingprettyrelaxed,ourheartbeatsmightbeat60beatsperminuteor70beatsperminute.Itturnsout,though,everysingleheartbeatwithinthatminuteissortofhappeningatadifferentspeed.So,youknow,ifwegetreallyexcited,maybeourheartbeatsmightincreaseforafewsecondsandthey're80beatsaminuteor90beatsaminuteandviceversa.Ifwe'reslowingdownandalmostfallingasleep,itmightactuallybeslower.Soitturnsoutthatthisbeat-to-beatchangeinyourheartbeat,it'scoined,sortof,heartrateofvariability.Ihavealittlebitofamathbackground,soIliketothinkaboutitasaderivativeofyourheartrate.Soitendsup,sortof,thatwefoundthatactuallythesemetrics,itcorrelatesextremelywellwithstress,overallstressandyourautonomicnervoussystemoryourANS.Soyeah,Ithinkthere'sbeenalotofstudiesoutthere,sortof,indicatingperiodsofconstantstressorchronicdiseaseactuallycauseverylowheartratevariabilitynumbers.Andwhenpeopleare,sortof,inaflowstate,they'reextremelyhealthy,theyhavealotofenergy,theytendtobewell-rested,yourheartratevariabilityturnsouttobereallyhigh.Soit'salittlecounter-intuitivebecauseahighHRVisreallygood,andalowHRVtendstobenottobesogreat.Butyeah,it'ssomethingthatwetrack.AndIwould,sortof,arguethatthebenefitoftheOuraring,it'stheeasiestwaytotrackthat.Ithinkotherdevicesthatpeoplewere,sortof,usingbeforetendtobecheststraps,andnoonewantstowearacheststraptobedthewholenightorfrankly,evenduringtheday.They'renotthatcomfortable.Andso,oneofthethingswefocusedonwasbeingabletotrackHRV.Andquitefrankly,we'restilllearningasacompanybecausenoone'sreallyevergatheredthatmuchHRVdataforseventoeighthourseverynightonalargepopulation.So,we'refindingnewthingsfromitallthetime.We'reseeingpeoplethatwhentheyhave,


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sortof,athleticeventsandthey'retrainingreallywellandrestingreallywellthattheirHRVtendstogoup.Ifthey'reovertraining,theirHRVtendstobeprettylow.We'vehadsomeuserstories.Somepeoplehavereachedouttousandsay,"Hey,it'scrazy,thatsomethingtraumatichappenedtome,"eitheranaccidentorthefamilyorsomethingreallystressfulatworkthat'shappening,andthey'llseeclearchangesintheirHRV.Andalotofpeopleareusingitnowintheathleticworldasametrictotrainby.SotherehasbeencorrelationswithHRVandphysicalperformancefromsomeofthenewresearchoutthere.Andso,alotofpeopleactually,Iwouldsay,intheenduranceathleteworldand,sortof,moreonthepowerside,theOlympicworldliftingsideareusingHRVasametrictohelpactuallylookatandtrainaccordingwith,sortof,seeingthatdata.Andthere'sevensome,sortof,newresearchbeingdoneonbreathingandmeditationandtheimpactonHRV.Andthat'ssomethingthatwehopetobringsoonin,sortof,ameditationmodewithintheapp.Katie:Verycool.Soistherelikeagoodmetricoraimforsomeonewho'strackingHRVorjustwantstostarttrackingit?Thatisagreat…justanaveragethatyou'reaimingfortoknowthatthat'sinagoodrange.Yousaidhigherisbetterwhichisunlikemosthealthmetrics.Butisthereanumberthat'sagoodnumberordoesitreallydependontheperson?Harpreet:SoIthinkitreallydependsontheperson.Youknow,oneofthethingsthatwe'rewaryofasacompanyistryingtoclassifypeople.Iliketo,sortof,thinkaboutitlikeayogaclassorgoingtothegymforthefirsttime.Youknow,thegoalisjusttogetbetter,right?Soitdoesn'tmatterwhoyouareandwhereyoustart.Ithinkfromanoverall,justwhat'sinterestingandcooltoknow,whatwe'veseenissomeoftheproathleteswehave,youknow,wehaveafewcyclistsintheTourdeFranceandsomeNFLathleteswearingtheOuraring,it'sprettyamazing.We'llseeHRVnumbersashighas150.Andjustletpeoplenow,theHRVmetricweuse,there'stwodifferentwaysto,sortof,used,ormanydifferentwaysusedoutthere.Butweusesortofatimedomainmetricthatwecalculateeveryfiveminutes,andit'scalledRMSSD.ItendsupbeingamathematicalformulawhichstandsfortheRootMeanSquaredofSuccessiveDifferences.I'mnotgonnagetintothemath,butinthatcase,theunitismilliseconds.Soifyouwannathinkaboutitasawayof100to150,thatwillbehowmuchofaveragevariabilityyouhavebetweenbeats.Itendsupbeingprettyhigh.Youknow,Ithinkonsomeofthechronicillnesssideonsomepeoplewhentheyhaveextremestress,we'llseeHRVnumbersaslowas10.Butagain,it'soneofthesethingsthatwe'refindingchangeswithage.SowedefinitelyhaveseenfromayoungeraudiencethattheirHRVswillbe,sortof,inthe70sto80s,maybeashighas90sundertheageof20.ButIthinkasyouage,aspeoplestartgettingtotheir40s,ittendstoactuallydropquitedramatically.SoIwouldsay40sandabove,we'reseeingHRVaverages,sortof,inthe40millisecondtomaybe50millisecondrange.Soagain,everyoneisgonnacomeinatadifferentlevel.Butifyou'rebelow10,that'ssomethingprobablytobeawareof.Ifyouhavesomechronichealthissuesgoingon,Iwouldn'tbesurprisedifit'ssortofaveraging


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20.Thatcanbeevenchronicissuesinthepast.Andthen,Ithinkwhenwesee,sortof,youknow,really1%of1percentersatthehighend,we'llseenumbers,sortof,ashighas100andabove.Katie:Wow,sodefinitelyabigrange.Andfromwhatyou'resaying,thingslikedeepsleepandphysicalexercise,Iwouldguesslikethingslikereducedinflammation,thosecanallimpactyourHRVandimprovethatnumber?Harpreet:Totally.Actually,oneofthethingsthatwe'refindingandIthinkthere'smoreandmoreresearchstartingtogointothis,soitshouldbecooltopayattentiontooverthenextfewyears,thatcertaintypesoftrainingimpactHRVdifferently.Sogenerally,wefoundthatboutsofintenseactivity,immediatelythatnight,youactuallytendtohaveloweractivity...orsorry,lowerHRVscores.Andso,ifyouthinkaboutthis,yourbodyjustwentthroughastressfulevent,right?It'sprobablygonnahelptakesometimetorecuperate.Butnormally,twotothreedayslater,actually,yourHRVwillbesortofhigherthanyourbaselinebecauseyourbodyissupercompensating,right?It'stryingtohealitselfandcomebackjustlikeWolverinedoes.Sowe'lltendtoseethatwithreallyintensetraining.Oneoftheinterestingthingsthoughisthatlightintensitylike,almostlikeamildbikeride,somethingthatgetsyourheartrateupabitbutnottoomuch,evensomelowintensityintervalwork,we'veseenactuallyprettyimpressivelyincreasesinHRVthenextdaywhensomepeopletendtodoasortoflighterworkalongwith,sortof,somethingslikestretchingorevengettingmassages.So,it'sprettyinterestingtoseethatactually,it'sjustimportanttohavethoselightdaysofactivityasitisthere'sheavydaysofactivityaswell,andthatthoselightdayscanactuallyhelpaccelerateyourrecoveryfromphysicalperformance.Katie:AndIcan'twaittoseethedatafromthetraditionalhunter-gatherertribes,too,becausethatseemstobeaverymuchmoreinlinewithmostlikelywhattheiractivitylevelcouldlooklikewithlotsoflow-levelmovement,movingaroundallthetime,andthenburstofintensitywhentheyneeditto.Soit'dbefascinatingtoseeiftheyhavegreatnumberswhichIwouldprobablyexpect.Harpreet:AndItotallyagree.It'sgonnabeafascinatingdatatocollect.Youknowwhat'sreallyinterestingaboutallofthisdataisIthinkitjustiscausingustofinallylookinwardabitmore.Youknow,oneofthethingsIalwaystrytothinkaboutistheaveragepersonnow,theytouchtheircellphone150timesaday.Soifyouthinkaboutthat,ifwe'reawakefor18or17hours,thatendsupbeing10timesroughlyanhour.Whenwe'resobusyintoday'smodernsociety,somuchmorebeingconnectedallthetimethatwesortofforgettoaskourselveshowwefeelorwhat'sgoingonwithourbodiesandminds.Youknow,Ithinkthathunter-gatherersocietyclearlybenefitsfromthat.SoIwouldn'tbesurprisedtoseeamuchhigherHRVnumberswiththem,butit'llbesuperinterestingtoseethatdata.Katie:Yeah,Ican'twaittoseeit.I'malsocuriousbecauseIhaven't...inthepast,I'vedonelikeextendedwaterfastingjustfortheautophagyandthedifferentbenefitsforthebody.Butit'stypicallysleepsuffersalittlebitwhenyou'refasting.SoI'mreallycurioustoseethenexttimeIdoafastwhattheringreportsasfarashowmysleepchangesandHRVandhowlongittakestorecover.Doyouseeanydataonthat?


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Harpreet:Wedon't.Wehaven'tdoneorganizedstudiesonthatyet,butthat'sactuallyoneofthethingsthatwe'rethinkingaboutstarting,islike,sortof,challengestoouruserbaseof,youknow,peoplewhoarewillingtohelpuscollectsomeofthisdata.Imean,oneofthethingsIthink...Youknow,RobbWolfetalksaboutthis,too,iswhathe'sfoundiswhengoinginaketogenicdiet,oftentimes,thatHRVandsleepwillbeimpactednegativelyatfirstbeforesortofyourbodyadapts,right.SoIthinkit'sgonnabecoolto,sortof,understandhowourbodyreactsduringthissortofextremeperiodsofchangewhenwe'retryingsomethingnew,especiallythosethatarerelatedwithlongertermhealthbenefits.Itissomethingthatwe'recognizantandwewannastartcollecting.Andfrankly,we'regonnaturntoourpowerusers,peoplelikeyou,tostartcollectingsomeofthesedataandorganizingitsowecanshareitwitheveryone.Katie:That'sawesome.Now,Iwannaswitchgearsalittlebitandtalkaboutsomethingthat'sgonna,Ithink,bereallyhelpfulforthewomenlisteningwhichisfertilitytracking.ThisissomethingI'vebeentrackingforIthink13yearsnowjustIbecauseIthoughtit'saveryhelpfulmetricforhealth.Andunlikemen,women'shormonesdochangeonadaily,weekly,andmonthlybasis.Andso,youkindofgetalotofdataaboutyourhealthbytrackingthat.ButIwannatalkaboutitspecificallyinrelationtotheOuraring.Soanyonewho'snotfamiliarwithit,there'smultiplewaysyoucantrackyourfertility.Itcanbethroughsymptomsandhowyourbodyischangingatdifferenttimesduringthemonth.ItcanbeevenyoursalivaanddifferentPHinyourbodychangesdifferenttimesinamonth.Butoneofthemorereliableonesisbasalbodytemperature.SoI'dloveifyoucouldtalkfromthetrackingsideabouthowtheOuraringcanrelatetotrackingyourfertilityandwhatkindofdatayou'regetting.Harpreet:Weactuallypostedaprettythoroughpostonthis,soI'mhappytosharethatintheshownotesaswell.Wherefrankly,ourtwoscientistsandanotherpersononourscientificstaffwentthroughandactuallydocumentedit,butyou'retotallyright.Youknow,Ithinkwhenwelookat,sortof,themenstrualcyclephases,theretendstobe,sortof,twophaseswetendtolookat.SoIthink,sortof,thefollicularphaseorFHandthelutealphaseandLH.Sowhatwe,sortof,layoutontheblogisthatweknowthatdifferenthormonesarereleasedatdifferenttimesthroughthesephases,andthatthosephasesactually...youknow,whenestrogenisreleasedandprogesteroneisreleased,enduphavingsortofdifferentchangesintemperature.And,sortof,whatweseewhenwetransition,whenwomentransitionfromthefollicularphasetothelutealphaseisthatbodytemperaturetendstoincrease,anincreaseabout1.3degreesCentigradeorFahrenheit,actually.So,weactuallygothroughthatchange,andyoucantrackitinyourOuraringdatawhichisreallycooltosee.Andthen,someoftheotherdatathatyoucanstarttotrackandwestarttoseecorrelationsfromisactuallyrestingheartratetendstochangeaswellduringdifferentpartsofthephaseofthemenstrualcyclephase,andalsoactuallyheartratevariability.Andmoreandmoreresearchiscomingouttherethatit'ssortofacombinationofthesethreethings,restingheartrate,basalbodytemperature,andactuallyheartratevariabilitycanhelpsortofreallyhelppeopletriangulatewhenachangeishappening,andwhenthesedifferenthormonesarebeingreleasedastheygothroughthemenstrualcycleeverymonth.


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Katie:I'msofascinatedbythatbecauseI'vebeenfamiliarwiththetemperatureconnectionforalongtimeandIlovethatIdon'thavetotrackthatwithaseparatethermometersoit'salreadybuiltintothedata.ButtheHRVside,Ifeellikethat'samuchnewersideoffertilitytrackingthatmostpeoplearen'tevenawareofyet.Andit'ssofascinatingtoactuallyseethosepatterns.Ireallywasblownawaybyhowreliablethatseemstoactuallybe.AndsoIknowforme,I'vegonefromyearsago,trackingalltheseonpaper,anditwasveryinefficient,tonow,betweentheOuraringandsomeapps,IfeellikeIhaveareally,reallythoroughgraspofthat.Andit'sgreatforwomen,Icansayfromthewomen'sside,tobeabletolookatitandsay,like,"Oh,okay,well,thatwouldbewhyI'mfeelinghormonaltoday,"or"That'swhyIfeellikeIneedextrasleeptoday<"becauseyouknowwhatyourhormonesaredoingaheadoftime.Andalso,youcanthensupportyourbodywhenyouknowyou'regonnaneedextranutritionorextracaloriesorextrarest.Youcanalreadybuildthatandthenplanonit.Sobasically,insidethedatainOuraring,IwishIcouldyoushowittoyouguyswhileyou'relistening,butI'llputsomepicturesintheshownotes.Youcanliterallyjusttrackyourpatternsandtrendsofallofthesethingswe'vetalkedabout.SoyoucanlookatyourtrendofHRVthroughoutyourmonthlycycleandseeitchange,andyoucanlookatyourtemperatureandhowmuchitchanges.Anditreallyisjustdrastictoseethat,soit'sreallycool.Doyouhaveanytipsforsomeonewho'smaybenewatthisonthebestwaystostartintegratingthedatatheywouldhavefromsomethingliketheOuraringwithfertilitytracking?Harpreet:Yeah.Thisone'shardformetospeakaboutasaguybecauseIdon'thavefirsthandexperiencelookingatmyowndatainthis.Andso,itissomethingIwishIcouldspeakmoreto.Idothinkwhenyoustartusingthering,you'llstarttosee...theeasiestwayisprobablytocheckitisintheTrendssectionoftheapp.IfyougototheReadinesssectionwithinTrends,youcanseesortofyourbodytemperature.Andyoucanlookatachangedailyor,sortof,weeklyaswellandstarttolookatsomeofthosetrends.Andwhenyoustarttolookatthedataafteryoucollectthemamonthortwo,it'llstarttobecomemoreobviousofwhenthosechangesarehappening.Frankly,Ithinktheresearchinthiscategoryisstillongoing.Idothinkalsothewaysthatwe'veeventrackedthishistoricallyasasocietyhavebeenprettycrude.Iknowsomeofthetopappsouttherethatpeopleusewhetherit'sFlo,IthinkGlowandCluearetwopopularonesaswell,thatpeople,sortof…they'llaskwomentowakeupeverymorning.AndIthinkatthesametime,checktheirtemperaturewithathermometer.Andifyoujustthinkaboutthat,it'ssortofabigpain.Andtheretendstobefluctuationwithtemperatureinyourroomtosomedegreeaswell,sothatcanhelpthrowitoff.Noonewantstositthereandwritedown,sortof,everydayifthatnumberischanging.So,youknow,Ithinkbeingabletotrackthatdatawith,sortof,anaveragethatwe'llgetthroughoutthewholenightfromyourtemperaturechangeendsupbeingamoreaccuratewaytodoit.Andactually,alsoespeciallyonthefinger,Ithink,likeImentioned,whenyourbodytriestocoolitselforhonestly,heatitself,yourextremitiestendtochangetemperaturefirst.Sowhatwefoundfromdatathatwe'vecollectedisthatendsupbeingabetterplacetocollectdatafromthantherest.


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ButIthinkwe'regonnacontinuetocollectmoreandmoredata.Weprobablywillatsomepointactuallytrytoworkwithsomeoftheotherthird-partyappsouttheretohelpintegrate.Soyoucoulduseallthefunctionalityof,let'ssay,thosetopmenstrualcycleappsthatImentionedandautomaticallyhave,sortof,yourOuradatajustinthere.Andso,I'dbecurioustohearsortofwhichappsyouraudiencelikesthemostbecauseIthinkfrankly,we'regonnawanttopartnerwithallofthem.Katie:Thatwouldbeamazingtobeabletoseethemalltogether.It'sobviouslysomuchmoreamazingnowjusthavingthemallinthatappversushandwritten.ButIknowIusetheFlooneandClueprettyoften,andIalsohave,Ithink,Lifeonmyphone.AndthoseseemtobethethreethatIhearthemostfromotherpeopleaswell.Thatwouldbeamazingtobeabletoseethoselineup.Andthen,suchagreatpointonthetemperaturething,too.BecauseevenwhenmeandI'vebeentrackingmycycleforthatmanyyears,thatwasthepartthatIalwayshadthemosttroubleactuallyconsistentlydoingbecauseofthat.Becauseifyougetuptogotothebathroomandforgettodoitfirst,ifyouaccidentallydrinkwaterandforgottotakeyourtemperaturefirst,itkindamessesupyourreading.Andthen,youkindadon'thavereliabledataforthewholemonth.Soatleastwiththering,youcan'treallyforget.Aslongasyou'rewearingthering,itjustdoesitautomaticallywhichhasbeensuperhelpful.Harpreet:Ithinkthat'sactuallyoneofthebenefitsofwearablesisthatcollectingthatdataactuallyallthroughoutthenightendsupbeing,sortof,amoreaccuratewaytomeasureanaverage,thanjustcollectingitatasinglepointinthemorning.Asyousortofmentioned,likeactually,temperaturewillchange,right,atanygiventimethroughouttheday,right?Butevenwithyourbody,likeifyouhavetousethebathroom,ifyou'remorestressedthannot,yourtemperaturecouldbechanging.Justlookingatasinglepointintimeisn'tasaccurateasgatheringthattemperaturedataallthroughoutthedayandnight.SoIdothinkit'soneofthosethingsthatlikelongitudinally,we'regonnastarttolearnmoreandmorethingsaboutdatathatwefindfromourusersandfromstudiesthatwe'llconduct,thenjust,sortof,theoldwayofjustcheckingyourtemperatureonceeverydayinthemorningatacertainperiodoftime.Theotherusefulapplicationtoothatweseethisforisfranklywhenpeoplearegettingsick.Ihaven'tbeensick,knockonwood,forthreeorfouryears.AndIfinallyactuallygotacoldabouttwoweeksago.Anditwasreallycoolformetobeabletoseethatdatahappening.Youknow,IfeltlikeIwasgettingsortofalittlebitofascratchythroat,andIsatnexttosomeoneontheplanefromNewYorktoSanFrancisowho'sjustsneezingthewholetime.SoIfeellikethat'swhereIpickeditup.ButassoonasIsawmytemperatureincreasealittlebit,ItotallyoverdosedonvitaminCandzincandabunchofgingerandlemonhoneytea.Idefinitelythinkthathelpedmegetaheadofthataswell.Iactuallythinktemperatureisgonnabeoneofthemostfascinatingthingsthatwestarttocollectdataon.Andwealsoknowtemperaturehasalottodowithchangesinthethyroid,soIknowsomepeoplethathaveprettyextremethyroidissues.Oneofthemetricsthatdoctorswilloftenaskthemtolookatwhenthey'rechangingtheirdosageofthyroidistheirtemperature.SoIthinkthat'slikeanotherusecasethatwewannalookinto.There'ssomanycoolthingsthatwe'restartingtolearnfromdatathatwe'recollectingfromdeviceslikeOuraandotherthingsoutthereaswell.Katie:Andontheextremeends,wehavesomecooldataaboutextremeheatandextremecoldandheat


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shockproteinsandthevariouswaysthataffectsthebody.Evenlikeyousaid,justsmallchangesintemperatureandhowdrasticallytheycanimpactourhealth.Onaselfishlevel,I'mcurioustoaskthatabouttemperatureis,whattemperaturecanIweartheOuraringin?I'vealwaystakenitoffifIwasinreallyhotwaterorreallycoldwaterjustbecauseIdidn'tknowifitwasgonnabeabletohandlethat.Butcanitbeworninthosecasesaswell?Harpreet:Yeah,totallycan.We'reaFinnishcompanysothere'sahugesaunaculture.Andoftentimes,ifyou'reoutnearbyariver,peoplejumpfrom,sortof,thesaunarightintotheriverandevenduringthewinterwhenthere'slikeiceoveritwhichissortofnuts.Soyeah,youcandefinitelyusethisinalltypesoftemperature.Iwasinasaunatheotherday.Thatwasalmost190,180degrees.It'sreallyhotandit'stotallyfine.SoIthinksomepeoplemightbemoresensitivetotheheat.Andyoumightfeelthemetalheatingupalittlebit,thetitanium.Sojustbecarefulonthelookoutforthat.Butforthemostpart,Iwouldsaymostofourteamdoeswearitintheextremeweatherconditions.Katie:Goodtoknow.I'llkeepitonthen.Willthereeverbetrackingwithintheappthatyoucanforeseethatwilltakeintoaccountthelikeextremetemperaturechangesandseehowthoseimpactsleep,orwillthatjustbesomethingtopayattentiontoasauser?Like,forinstance,knowingifI’mgonnabeinasaunaandacoldtubbackandforthandthenseeingwhatitdoestomysleep.Harpreet:It'sdefinitelysomethingworththinkingaboutdoingbecauseexactlyasyousaid,justbeingabletohelppeoplecorrelatethatandhonestlydoingthelargestsaunastudiesouttherewouldbeprettycool.Butnow,thatissomethingwe'relookingtoenablingduringtheday.Imean,it'sfascinating.Honestly,justthedatayoucancollectfromtemperatureevenifyouthinkaboutafteryouexercise,yourbodytemperaturemightstayelevatedforlonger.Maybe,that'sindicativeofyouworkedoutreallyhardortoohard.Andfrankly,eventhingsthatwefoundfromcertaintypesoffoodandjustmeals.Theycallitthemeatsweats.SoIthinkthemoreandmoredatathatwecanstarttosharewithourusersaswestarttofindsomeofthesecorrelationsonthingsthat'llbehelpfulforpeople,we'lllooktodothat.Butyeah,Ithinkwe'regonnastartcreatingthesechallengesinouruserbaseandmaybeyourself,Katie,andsomepeopleinyourcommunitymightbesomeofthefirstpeoplethatweasktohelpuscollectdataon,sortof,asaunachallenge.Katie:I'min.Iwilldefinitelydoasaunachallenge.Arethereplanstoeventuallyintegrateaswellwithlikeafoodtrackingapportobeabletoseechangeslikenoticeapatternifyouatethisfoodmultipletimesandyoursleepwasaffectedeverytimeyoueatit?Iknowthatwillbecomplicated.Harpreet:No.Honestly,theseareallthethingsthatwehavesortofinourroadmapthatwe'realllookingtodo.Wedefinitelyknowthere'scorrelationsbetweencertainfoods,whenyoueatthem,andthenhowyourbodyreacts.Ithinkthere'sevenbeensomegoodworkouttherewith,sortof,correlationsbetweenheartratevariabilityandfastingglucoselevels.There'sagentlemanoutofUK,AlessandroFerretti,he'sputsomegoodinformationtogetheronYouTubeonthis.Andfrankly,whenIgotacontinuousglucosemonitor,Iwasactuallycomparing...Iwastryingtodo...Imean,


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thisisrealcitizensigns.Idon'trecommendthis,butIwasactuallytryingtoseemyselfifIcouldseebigchangesinHRValongwithglucose.Soforaperiodoftwoweeks,Isortofletmyselfgowildandexperiment.ButIwasdoingthingslikeeatingdesertprettylaterightbeforegoingsleep.AndsawimmediatechangesinmyCGMfromthedataIwasgettingtherealongsidechangesinmyHRVfromdataIwasgettingintheOuraring.So,Idothinkwewannastartintegratingwithmoreandmorepartners.So,youknow,we'reallearsandtryingtotalktoasmanypeopleaswecanfrankly,andeventually,makingthisdatamoretaggableandmoreaccessibletoourusers.Wedefinitelythinkthatjustcollectingdataisgonnahelppeoplelearnfromeachother.Sowedowanttoenable,sortof,thesecorrelationsandnote-taggingwithintheappsowecanhelppeople,sortof,findcorrelationswhethertheyatealatedinneroratedesertorhadanearlydinnerandseemakingiteasierto,sortof,spotthecorrelationsandtrendsthatendupchangingwiththat.Sowewillbereleasingsomeofthat,Iwouldsay,inthefallandinthewinterintheapp.Katie:That'sgreatnews.

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Katie:AndIfeellikethemoreresearchIreadlatelytoo,themoreI'mconvincedthatthefutureofhealthforallofusisverypersonalizedandverymuchvaried.Andbasedonsomanyinputs,it'slike…firstofall,itwasallthesedifferentdietarydogmas.Andnow,wecankindalookatitandgo,"Maybe,wewereallright,"or"Maybeallofthesethingshavetheirtimeandtheirplace."Butthekeyistobeabletoseeyourowndataandhowthey'reimpactingyoupersonallybecausethatvariessomuchfrompersontoperson.


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IthinkthingsliketheOuraringandjusthavingthiswiderabilitytotrackdataonaninstantbasisversushavingtogetlabsorhavingtogoseeadoctorthatthat'sreallygonna,overthelongterm,helpsomanyofustakeourhealthbackintoourownhandsandtobeabletomakesmallchangesday-to-day,versushavingtomakemassivehealthchangeswhenwegetahealthproblemlater.Soit'ssocoolthatwe'renowabletoeventalkabouttrackingallthesethings.Harpreet:Totally.Ithinkhonestly,we'rebigbelieversatOurainNof1.Everyone'sdifferentandfrankly,Iknowwhileusershaverequested,that'swhywehaven'treleasedalotoftheaveragedataoncertainpeopleand,let'ssay,certainagecohorts.Wewillbedoingmoreofthatinthefuturejustsopeoplehaveabettersenseofwheremaybetheyshouldbe.ButIdothinkNof1,yourowndataisreallywhat'sgonnahelpyouimproveandcausebehaviorchange.It'ssortofseeinghowyoureacttosomething,andthewayyourfriendreactsislikelygonnabedifferentmostofthetime,whichispartofthechallenge.Forallofus,sortof,helpingtoimproveourhealth,becauseit'sdifferentstrokesfordifferentfolks.Andwedoseethisfromourowndata.Imean,oneexampleisactuallybluelight-blockingglasses.Whileithelpsmostpeopleforsure,wehavefoundcohortsofcertainuserswhereactually,they'renotaslight-sensitiveandtheytendtoreleasemelatoninjustokay.Youknow,IwishIwasoneofthosepersons.I'mnot.ButIthinkhonestly,themoreandmorewestarttofindoutwithdata,whatthingsareworkingforcertaintypesofpeople,thesmarterwe'regonnabeasasocietyandexactlyasyousaid,takinghealthbackintoourownhands.Katie:Iloveit.Andaswestarttowrapup,Ican'tbelievethishourhasflownbyalready.ButI'dlovetoaskifthere'sanyadviceorpiecesofadvicethatyoufeellikeyouwishyoucouldsharefarandwideorthat'smisunderstood,specificallyinyourareaofresearch.Harpreet:Imean,Ithinkfrankly,thebiggestthingIliketoshareisit'saboutwhatwe'rejusttalkingabout.It'saboutwhatworksforyou.Noteverythingisgonnaworkforeveryone.Peopleareatdifferentpointsintheirlives.MygirlfriendhasLymedisease.HerHRVislowerthanminewillbe,andit'sreallyfrustratingforher.AndIthinkinthebeginning,shewasjustcomparingtominealot.Youknow,Ithinkthat'ssortofnottherightapproachbecauseitcanoftenleadtofrustration.IthinkthekeyistosortoflearnwhatworksforyouandbeabletousethingslikeOuraandotherdevicesandotherthings,othertrackingappsouttheretoreallyunderstandandhaveamoreholisticpictureandlookinwards,right?LikeIwassortofsaying,Ithinkintoday'smodernsociety,andI'mabigbelieverintechnologyobviously,butitdefinitelyhashaditsdownfalls.Andso,Ithinkwe'remorehyperconnectedasaresultwhichisgreat.Butatthesametime,we'resortofbeingpulledin10differentdirectionseveryhour.AndIthinkhonestly,thatthatdoesn'tgiveusmuchtimetothinkourselves,lookinward,andreflect.Andthat'sfranklyoneofthebigthingsbehindOuraiswewantedtomake,sortof,theinvisible,visibleagain,right,ofwhat'shappeninginsideyourbodyandmindandbeabletoshowandlookatsomedatasopeoplecanstarttounderstand.Andwe'regonnamakethateasierintheappscreensovertime.Weknowprobablyyouraudienceandotherpeopleouttherethatarebio-hackersareprettysophisticatedandknowhowto


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understandthisdata.Butfrankly,mymomormydadtheydon't.Andsoweareawarethatweneedtomakethissortofmoreaccessibleforthemasses.Youknow,thebigthingisIwouldsayislearnwhatworksforyou.It'syourownjourneyonhealthandstartlookingatsomeofthisdataonthingslikeOuraringandotherdevicesandappsouttheretohelplearnbecauseit'sreallyallaboutlearningfromwhereweareandnotfromwheresomeoneelseis.Katie:Absolutely.Andlastly,isthereabookthat'shadabigimpactonyourlifethatyouwouldrecommend?Itdoesnothavetoberelatedtoeverythingwetalkedabout.Harpreet:IwouldsayareallyinterestingbookthatIthinkhadabigimpactonmylifewas"Ishmael."It'sbyDanielQuinn.Thebookisactually…it'saboutatalkinggorillawhichissortofinsaneconcepttobeginwith,butit'sextremelywell-written.Andthisgorillaendsupconversingwiththishumanandtheyendupsortoftalkingaboutalotofissuesjustinlifeasawhole.It'shadabigimpactonmebecauseIthinkoneofthethingstheytalkaboutis,sortof,firstorderchangeandsecondorderchange.It'stheideaof,sortof,youhavetobeinaplaceof,healthandevenwealthforyourselfbeforeyoustartembarkingandabletohelpothers.Andittalksaboutinthisjourneyoftryingtohelpotherpeople,howsometimesweactuallyhurtthemandIthinksomeoftheidiomscomeback,too,someofideasofgivingamanafishversusteachingamanhowtofish,thesameconceptwithfirstorderchangeandsecondorderchange.It'sareallyfunbook.Ithinkit'sreallyeasytoread,andit'ssomething,sortof,atypicalthatyouwon'thearfrom,Ithink,mostentrepreneurstalkingabout,sortof,businessbooksorsomebookasfarasjustaboutsleep.IwillsaythatoneotherbookIreally,reallyloveandIthinksomeonehasdoneitreally,reallywellis"WhyWeSleep"byMattWalker.HerunstheBerkeleySleepLab,andIthinkheputs,sortof,probablythebestandeasiestbooktoreadonallthedifferentthingsandfascinatingthingsthathappentoourbodyandourmindwhenwesleep.So,ifyouwannadivefurther,I'drecommendthat.Butifyou'relookingforsomethingjusttomaybewhatmightseemlikeastepoffthebeatenpath,I'ddefinitelycheckout"Ishmael"byDanielQuinn.Katie:Thosearebothnewrecommendations.I'veaddedthembothtomylist.Thankyousomuch.Andforanyofyouguyswhoarelistening,IdefinitelyrecommendtryingouttheOuraringbecause,likeIsaid,IamshockedhowmuchI'veintegrateditintomylifeandhowmuchdataitgivesme.Andtherewillbealinkintheshownotesofcourse,butyoucanalsojustgotoouraring.com,that'souraring.com,andusethediscountcodewellnessmama.

AndHarpreet,thankyousomuch.Iknowit'sbusytorunacompanyandallthethingsthatyouhaveonyourplate,andIreallyappreciateyoubeinghereandsharingtheresearchandthedatawithus.Harpreet:Katie,thankyouforhavingme.Andhonestly,thankyouforeverythingthatyou'vedone.Ithinkit'speoplelikeyoufrankly,andothersthatarehelpingtosharealltheinformationthey'velearned,makingiteasyinaccess,freeforalotofittoget,andaccessibleintheformsofpodcastsandblogsandsocialforpeopletocontinuelearningaboutthemselves.We'reallinthisjourneytogether,andit'speoplelikeyouthatfrankly,makeitaloteasier.


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Katie:Thankyou.Andpeoplelikeeveryonelistening,thankyouguysforlistening,peoplewhocareabouttheirhealthandarewillingtomakechangesandtakecontroloftheirownhealth,youguysmakeourjobsawesome.Weappreciateyou.Weappreciateyourtimeinlistening,andIhopetoseeallofyouguysnexttimeonthe"WellnessMamaPodcast."

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

Documents

190- The Easiest Way to Track HRV, Sleep and …...30 pounds, 40 pounds in my first year of investment banking. And I'm 5 foot 5 and I weighed about 140 in college. So 30 pounds to