16. Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part V

8/11/2019 16. Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part V

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Dialogue On The Way Of Knowledge - Part

V

I've added, what I'm calling, Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge, to my site, Carlos

Castaneda's don Juan's Teachings. It began on, Jun !"th, #$$$, when I received an %&mail

from ichael. I will use ( to begin his comments, )( to begin mine. This is *art five of the

dialogue. It continues where *art l+ left off. ere.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

)( These last few days I've recalled being called a withholding slime. While I mentioned full

disclosure as a necessary *art of my interaction with you I've not lived u* to that.

( -ll of that, disclosure or not, is based u*on your understanding of your own im*eccability

and im*ulses. There are so many details of each life, these dialogues really only can be

effective for the broader conce*ts. If there is benefit to you in these echanges, it is in the

form of course navigation, not the ri**le of the detail of each wave ...

)( I thin/ my rant was in *art an e*ression of my frustration with the sense that you are all

for my handling *hysical *roblems through normal medical channels and that has me in a bit

of a dilemma with you

( 0uic/ interru*tion & insert & for etension.

( 1ur reference systems of ourselves form a basis for our decisions and the resultant

actions. -s members of those who have chosen to engage in the way, it is beneficial to

always cross chec/ ourselves relative to what we, each of us, consider our im*eccability,

and that is a very *ersonal conce*t for each one of 'us'. If you have a different understanding

of the manner in which any *articular item may function for you than another might for

themselves, then your im*eccability would be negatively im*acted if you sim*ly followed

the a**roach of another.

( - long time ago, when I e*erimented with racing formula cars on a formula one road

course, the tric/ of success was based on many dynamics of bra/ing, setting u* for each

turn, the moment of acceleration from a turn, et al. Collectively we called this the line

through the turn. 2ecause the *recise dynamics of each car on the trac/ is different, because

the s/ill and feeling of the action of each car is different *erce*tionally for each driver, we

had the e*ression 3ind your own line( follow someone else's line, and you die.. The

analogy to *ersonal decisions, here, is about the same. We each at any given *oint understand

different things and *rocesses on the *oints of *ersonal decisions.

( 3or myself, as a matter of my own im*eccability for myself, this is what I /now( y

evolution on the way of /nowledge is not com*lete4 im*eccability drives me to attem*t tobring this evolution toward it's ultimate com*letion, doing everything I can to accom*lish that


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goal, and maimi5ing the time that this effort re6uires & whatever that might be. In my own

situation having medically flat&lined more than once, having travelled both volitionally and in

clinical death to the third attention, having observed those who have com*leted their *ath and

7for that matter8 are allies in my 6uest, im*eccability causes the drive to continue. )elative

to my body and all of it's *hysical com*onents and it's wea/nesses that can cause tentative

*hysical continuance, my own im*eccability demands for myself that 7literally8 I doeverything I *ossibly can for myself to /ee* this organic function viable, *artially because

there is some tentativeness 7in the chronic sense8 to that *rocess. The term everything I can

means, literally, everything that is essential and that includes invocation of the medical

*rofession without which invocation, my body would have *erished without doubt by now,

that this death would have been *remature relative to my com*letion of my evolution, and I

would have become stuc/ in the third attention as an unfinished wor/ ...

( unacce*table. 3or myself, it would *robably have been worse as a violation of

im*eccability sim*ly because there is understanding9/nowledge, of where the intended level

of evolution will *rogress( it has been seen.

)( as, on the one hand, your a**roach, e*lanations, guidance, ... what have you, in the area

of the Castaneda material, call it sorcery, I guess, stri/es me as nothing short of ins*iring. 1n

the other hand, when you tal/ about scientific things, it stri/es me that you are, while

a**arently a leader there in your own right, a follower at the same time in areas outside your

field.

( ummm. Interesting. y flash res*onse is that the universe is not divided into

science9technology and :on&science and technology. There is only the realities as we

understand them. ;cience is etraordinarily limited in it's understanding. %ventually, though,

from what I can see, and foresee, the magic of sorcery might be understandable at least in

conce*t if not detail, in broader and even *erha*s technical terms, and at least it's interesting

and sometimes fun to s*eculate u*on that.

:1T% T1 )%-D%);( net is an eam*le of my saying stuff as if it were true when actually I

didn't /now and


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determine, and while that may eventually turn out to be wrong it's the best that can be

related with the data base of the time. In science, everything must be falsifiable, or it's not

science & it's a religious belief system or something a/in to that.

)( 2ut I love your calmness. -nd I've meant to reread your comments that I'd said sounded

li/e I'd *ushed you to your limit of im*eccability. The fact that I haven't reread them is areflection of my /nowing that I can absolutely ta/e you at your word and so while I intend to

reread them for clarifying and further learning, there isn't the slightest bid of doubt in me that

all your comments were made in total calmness and clarity && because you have since told me

that they were.

( If you *erceive them in the clarity that is attem*ted, then that is what they re*resent to

you. 2ecause you are sensitive and *erce*tive, it is *ossible if not *robable that you would be

able to feel if this dialogue was ina**ro*riate driven by self&im*ortance or refle emotion,

rather than /nowledge or clarity or whatever term that might be assigned. I wonder why I've

told you that they were would be in your thought *rocess ...

)( -nd that fact about you is so thrilling to me when it's cou*led, as I *erceive that it is, with

your *rofound e*erience.

)( ;o, bac/ to the scientific side *roblem, I really want to heal my body through natural

means. -nd I really don't 6uite understand your lac/ of su**ort for that, given that I'm not

ta/ing any drugs, I'm eating no refined sugar of grains ... see, I thin/ that is it && right there && I

don't get from you that you a**reciate natural healing through boosting the bodies natural

healing *ower, i.e., immune system, and all, with diet and eercise, *rimarily macrobiotics

with lots of green


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( The *rocess is not the se*arate consideration that you seem to believe that it is. ;omehow,

according to your revelation of your ideas, there is a *artition between the a**roaches, but in

truth there is not.

)( @@I'm seeing that now, and really, you showed me that before and I resisted it.

( @@The 6uestion again surfaces( why?. ;*ecifically why the resistance. These are not

answers that are re6uired by me ... they are internally directed for you.

)( =es, I thin/ my rant was a manifestation of a gigantic frustration that I'd found an ama5ing

source of /nowledge in finding you but that with it was coming what I considered to be

almost a scientific drivel in the area of health. :ow, you've made the *oint about, I don't recall

eactly, but to the effect that when one doesn't /now something they try to ma/e u* for it by

claiming to /now what they don't. ;o I'm sensitive to that charge being made against me when

I claim to /now what is best for my body && food wise. To be sure, I don't, but I have such a

strong sense about it && that it is correct what I'm doing ... and yet ... to be sure, I don't

/now ... at least I can't fully say that I do /now ... and that, to me, is the great missing ...the fact that I can't fully say that I do /now. ;o, because of that missing, do I let the doctor

cut off the s/in *roblem. I


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guesstimated to be *erha*s #> years.8 -bout seven years ago, or ten years into our

relationshi*, while sitting at dinner one evening when he was *robing me about s*ecific

coincidences of late, I finally admitted to him that there were abilities that were being

eercised that had never been o*enly said to him and that his life had been changing because

of this *rocess. e was also informed that he also could develo* into these abilities and that it

was


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( :o, you are not being *resum*tuous, and my etension to you is evidence of that, and

your concern albeit ta/en as courtesy, indicates that there still is some curiosity or reservations

about ... 1h well.

)( ichael, I have the sense that I ought to have this 1h well thought com*leted. I will tryto com*lete it myself. Were you saying ... your concern ... indicates that there still is some

curiosity or reservations about why I have started this echange.? :o, no no, that is not it,

well, maybe *artly.

( Aerha*s it's in attem*ting to understand what I am, and not fully trusting your *erce*tions

on this ... your call.

)( Were you saying ... your concern ... indicates that there still is some curiosity or

reservations about &&&? Well, this is not wor/ing, my second guessing, that is. 2est if I loo/ at

who I was when I wrote I ho*e I wasn't being too *resum*tuous. I su**ose I have a very

strong resistance to giving myself over to another and you've been so generous with yourtime, but not that, you are there for me, in many ways, the don Juan figure, and while I've ...

7:1T% T1 )%-D%);( The net four m('s brea/ u* my original %&mail ... not that that is

new to these dialogues, it's G. Through your su**ort

I've made the ma


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standard. 2y not holding myself to the standard, I ma/e ecuses and don't have to be

res*onsible for what I am. It's a denial of self and maybe it's that denial of self that hasn't fully

let you in as so doing would re6uire that I dro* the false defense.

( -yn )and would hel*E er *hiloso*hy directly hits at what you said immediately above.

)( I see myself now writing this and it's all starting to cloud over &&& more defense to stay

where I was and not come out into, say, the light. It's worse than that, I'm bac/ in denial of

that silent witness that I see myself able to be.

( Aerha*s you have fear, a very *rimordial refle of survival. If you hang on to what you

have been 7since you are on the threshold that could change you & forever8 it's *robably eagle

snac/ time and you /now that, but at least you /now and are accustomed to the *ast even

though it's not *articularly comfortableE

)( It's as if this is some /ind of a game that I'm *laying with myself and with you.

( Doesn't seem li/e a game ...

)( I've grown u* with the notion that I was somehow s*ecial... because I did math well, I

guess. 2ut, I've used it as another ecuse for non action. 1, *oor me, I'm some s*ecial

one what a terrible burden is on *oor me, instead of wor/ing hard and ma/ing something

out of it. ;o I


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( Im*eccability, *er se, re6uires initially an understanding that im*eccability, meaning the

standards for that attribute, is a moving *arameter, or if you wish, a continually moving target.

-s we evolve, the conce*t of im*eccability drives us to continually evaluate, interrogate, and

re&evaluate ourselves, our emotions, our decisions, and our actions based on our decisions, to

determine if the action will be, or was, im*eccable. 3or those of us on the way of

/nowledge, the result of these interrogations will be, if before the fact of the action ordecision, that yes it is believed to be im*eccable. 1n retros*ect, through, after the fact, we

may learn that there was a *arameter in the decision *rocess that was 'not' considered, and that

having fully considered the new *arameter 7that was there all along but not considered8 we

might find that the action or decision was not im*eccable after all sim*ly because all of the

decision *arameters re6uired were not viewed ob


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)( I have assumed that they are second attention situations whenever I've been about to act

volitionally and from the stand*oint of /nowing that I was dreaming. That you call this

recently described dream a second attention e*erience, I have no *roblem with that, I or B> minutes, although I've never considered how to

actually measure it, time wise.

( Don't try to measure in time & waste of effort. In the !nd and Brd attentions, the


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e*eriences can be so dramatic that seconds might have the e6uivalent of hours in #st

attention matters. The de*th of the e*erience is what is im*ortant, not the duration.

)( 2ut the initial stage of those seems 6uite *recarious and sometimes I can't hold the

beginning image but rather it sli*s away and I'm bac/ to


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)( =es, I see the value of not getting hung u* on if it's a volitional dream, blah&blah, etc. and

at the same time it is my intention to /now when I'm dreaming9in the second attention, so in

the related case I did miss that chance. -s for trying to *artition it seems to me that that is

sim*ly *art of discrimination and unavoidable to *erce*tion, that is to say, it can't be hel*ed. I

did what I did, I was aware of it, it is *art of a whole form of /nowledge, but isn't it

unavoidable to distinguish the differences and doesn't it even hel* to so distinguish so that*erha*s one is better *re*ared the net time such a dream occurs. 1K, what I need to as/ is(

ow does *artitioning handica* integrating e*eriences into a whole form of /nowledge.

( In the early stages of *erce*tions, *artitioning is a willful tas/ that re6uires effort, and it

doesn't integrate well into a whole. The idea is to recogni5e the e*erience for it's attributes,

without attem*ting to *lace s*ecific boundaries 7*artitions8 around it. The recognition will

aid in the definitions sufficiently without forming boundaries.

)( I've actually entered into volitional dreaming from an awa/e state in bed. Those are the

best.

( =ou are more advanced than you re*resent9admit yourself to be. :ow, as/ yourself why

you don't commit to acce*tance and try to *artition yourself.

)( I wrote more on this /ind of dreaming with this line of yours in mind. 1n this *art4 It

stri/es me that the word advanced also *artitions. I don't mean to misre*resent myself. I

don't thin/ about admitting anything to myself, dreaming wise. I've acce*ted it all 7dreaming8


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where this is ta/ing me, and why, and this might really be a challenging adventure. That is

the s*irit of what I mean. Im*eccability re6uires the self&confidence that if something occurs

that violates my im*eccability I'll /now it and immediately have the *ower9ability of blowing

myself out of the e*erience and bac/ into the safety of the #st attention. ;ince that can be

accom*lished on the instant at any time, then all I have to do is to allow the adventure to

ta/e me and in that manner, all I have to do is be alert.

)( I felt very stu*id when I wo/e u*. -ll I can thin/ is that I also don't usually have dreams

that eactly co*y what I'm e*ecting to really ha**en in real life, and this one did, so I


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never /nown a wa/ing unusual e*erience and to be told now that a little flic/ering is my

seeing energy flow li/e others can't 7won't?8, well, it doesn't 6uite seem li/e much to write

home about. I also reali5ed that I've been seeing this at times for a long long time ... and, I


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be useful. y fear is that this is all becoming self&defeating for you, and yes, I do care.

)( 1n the other hand, my feeling of total energy, otherwise, /ee*s me ho*eful while still

sus*ecting that it may be foolishly so. -nd so, I've been finding myself in bouts of de*ression

as I continue to de*lore my giving u* to having the /nife cut away.

( I, of course, do not /now what you really have going on and my sus*icion is that you

might not /now either.

)( 3rom !&!&$$ have not had a dro* of anything that was not whole and natural eating

mostly brown rice and beans, fish, raw and coo/ed vegetables and fruit ... *eriod. 2ut, again, I

admit to being frustrated and a bit de*ressed by my arm and the other. I believe that you thin/

my decision is not based on im*eccability but I must tell you that I truly do.

( I can only view this from my own *ros*ective( if you are not correct, then the result is

truly negative and there is concern that given the other negativity based on history that you've

re*orted 7I'm not s*eculating,


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( :o 6uestion about it in my mind.

)( I got further information that same day at(

htt*(99imsdd.meb.uni&bonn.de9cancernet9!>#B>!.htmlLMD%;C)IATI1:

)( Where I determined mine to be third stage. any treatments are described here and I

gleaned onto the last treatment mentioned( 2iological thera*y tries to get the body to fight

cancer. It uses materials made by the body or made in a laboratory to boost, direct, or restore

the body's natural defenses against disease. 2iological treatment is sometimes called

biological res*onse modifier 72)8 thera*y or immunothera*y. Clinical trials are being done

to find biological thera*ies that are effective.

( I loo/ed through the sites that you referenced above, and certainly they a**ear com*etent.

The ;tage III descri*tion has the surface at about millimeters which is a bit less that B9#th

inch diameter. The de*th of the tumor, though, has a significant im*act between the ;tages,and that cannot be determined without imaging or *enetration.

( Comment( It is interesting that in your rant you decried western medicine but in these

web sites you are utili5ing it's methodologies to self& diagnose. This is


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*roblem?

( In the main, that is *robably true. Ahysicians who are homeo*athic do eist, however, they


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( Well, there are many *ostulations about what cause the genetic systems to mutate as they

age. In laboratory *o*ulations, the systems age as a function of *re&*rogrammed effects that

are currently thought to be D:- based intrinsically. The aging and mutations are li/e a

co*ier and each time a co*y is made on *a*er, it gets a little altered9fu55ier. %very cell in our

bodies is re*laced on a se6uence about every seven years, and they change


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( ..2ut at considerable ris/ since - of the bet is being *laced u*on one roll of the dice.

)( :1T%( Then net two lines were after this dialogue, of course, as so much of this is

intermied... I


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absence of a *hysical body, or, will the *erson dissi*ate into oblivion because of the lac/ of

coherent energy?

( as the *erson, having studied information in many meta*hysical and *hiloso*hical

de*ths, had sufficient time and intent to convert the studied information into true

/nowledge?

( Hiven the decision matri and the a**roach to a /nown life&threatening condition

7assuming com*etent self&diagnosis8 eecuted by the *erson, will there be sufficient *hysical

time available to com*lete the conversion of studied information into true /nowledge

that could facilitate continuance?

)( I am continuing now. Than/ you for giving me the o**ortunity to loo/ at this in de*th.

( That was my


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caused to res*ond by acting on *rocessed sam*le of the tumor material itself is new to

technology, and very successful, however it cannot be mass *roduced because the *athology

is uni6ue to each event of each *erson.

( It does not ta/e much imagination to *ro


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)( ;o, for the most *art, even *erha*s those *hysician who /now or highly sus*ect, don't

advice other than standard *rocedure. -nd so we have4 for eam*le, the thousands of

children having ear o*erations each year and the *hysician who admits, of course we /now

that mil/ is the *rimary cause. I don't tell my *atients *arents to have their children sto*

drin/ing mil/, then I wouldn't have any *atients. WrongE then he would be run out of townby the mil/ industry.

( ummm. :o comment.

)( I recommend that you find a co*y of ;ugar 2lues by William Dufty. I would li/e to hear

what you thin/ about it should you read it.

( -ctually, no motivation. I grew u* in the >'s and the F>'s. I never had an ear *roblem and

growing u* never /new anyone that had, and I've ta/en tons of mil/ through my life and still

do because I en


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describe, but not indescribable. 1nce the *ower of the universe has been e*lored, touched,

travelled u*on as the traveller is *ro*elled by it, the e*erience albeit vast and *rofound,

becomes a /nown com*onent of self and it's energy forms are also found within ourselves,

bodies and all. The etension of self, which amounts to the cou*ling of self, into these

manifestations of energy cause us to become etensions of the universal energy flow, and

ourselves cou*led to them. 3rom that *oint on, almost li/e one's loosing virginity, one cannotgo bac/ into being an isolated individual and to attem*t to do so, rea*s *roblems for the

traveller9warrior. In any case, the a**rentice may be with effort and develo*ment brought to

understand at least how to e*erience the touch of the energy, and ho*efully, to channel the

energy 7better said( fields8 meaning that this flows with the individual, not


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am real. There is full awareness that this is difficult to find in another, and therefore not

sur*rising that one might use these devices and *robing in6uiries as techni6ues. -fter all is

considered, though, im*eccability demands that there be a benefit to the echange, or

im*eccability becomes thwarted, because the echange becomes relegated to something of a

*astime, and that is insufficient to


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)( -nyway, this rewra**ing is, at least, noticed. -nd having noticed it I'm in a *osition to

fight through it. ...

( Can only ho*e that you will. The tric/ is to never fully re&wra*, and to use your

/nowledge as a**lied ability even as you wal/ through your structures.

)( Than/ you for these new insights .

)( )ereading them, I should rewrite my


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someone else and I was on a la5y boy 7I'm laughing, given the above writing8 ty*e chair

loo/ing at *oetry in Ja*anese that you had given me. The *oetry was written on vase forms so

that I needed to turn the vase to read 7should say, loo/ at as I don't read Ja*anese8 the

*oetry. There was no ac/nowledge from you that it was you, I


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the fact that I was dreaming, but it did not. That was it.

( The dreams are only instructional forms and a reality as valid as structural life, and often

more valid. ost seem to not 6uite understand


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( HreatE

)( -nd I must admit, since that wal/ a few days ago, I've not been doing it, but the im*ortant

thing is that I /now how and, that reminds me, I was noticing that it is different when I have

something that re6uires visual attention4 com*utering, T+ing, dish washing, coo/ing, youname it. The ease of it while wal/ing was that my eyes were not focused on anything 7d

Documents

16. Dialogue on the Way of Knowledge - Part V