On IS Febmary 2004 , a team of officers , directed by Major General Antonio Tagubaconducted the following interview. Major General Taguba was appointed as anInvestigating Officer under the provisions of Army Regulation 15- , by LieutenantGeneral David D. McKiernan , Commanding General of the Coalition Forces LandComponent Command (CFLCe), to look into allegations of maltreatm~:nt of detaineesdetainee escapes and accountability lapses , at Abu Ghraib , also known as the BaghdadCentral Confinement Facility (BCCF). The panel also inquired into training, standardsemployment , command policies , and internal policies , concerning the detainees held atAbu Ghraib prison. Finally, the panel looked into the command climate and thecommand and supervisory presence

The following persons were present:

COL Kinard J. La FateLTC Timothy A. Weathersbee,CPT Bobby L. ChristineI L T Elvis L. Mabry,

, CFLCC - PMO , Interviewf~r705 th MP Battalion, Interviewer

265th Engineer Group - SJA , IJilterviewer800th MP Brigade , Interviewee

The interview is summarized as follows:

My name is Elvis Ladell Mabry. My social security number isLieutenant. I am the Aide-de-Camp for Brigadier General Karpinski.

I am a First

I am responsible for overall safety. I act as a PSO. I am also a schedule manager. Mybranch is MP. I came to the 800th MP Brigade as BG Hill' s Aid-de-Camp in Jam;mry.

I went through MOB training at Fort Dix. We training consisted of conduct, ROI~ , andfamily separation. We did weapons qualification and j-list training. We did an internalCPX. We trained on Geneva Conventions.

BG Karpinski traveled quitc often. There would be times we would go daily to tlheBaghdad Correctional Facility and at least twice a month to Camp Bucca or the prisons inthe Mosul Area. When we went to Abu Graib she would touch base BattalionCommander. There were some changes in the position of Battalion Commander; thecurrent Battalion Commander is LTC Pappus. It is my understanding that when tjhe MItook over the facility the 800th MP Brigade was removed from oversight. I believb therewas a discussion between BG Karpinski and COL Pappus about who was in control ofwhat.

There was nothing out of the ordinary when I visited Abu Graib. There were minoruniform discrepancies , but nothing major. I am not aware of the 163rd MI trying to setstandards as far as saluting. I recall a discussion between BG KarpinskJi and COL Pappusabout living conditions as far as expanding the troop living area. I don t recall BGKarpinski' s comments in regards to the expansion. I never sit in on conversations nortelephone calls that the General has.

I'd say BG Karpinski and myself have a pretty good relationship. She is a very smartlady, she knows her job , and I respect her a lot. She is hands-on when she needs to bebut she nonnally steps back and lets her leaders be leaders. If she sees something goingoff track she will step in.

1 am familiar LTC Phillabaum s suspension from his command. IfI recall correctly thebreak in command was due to a couple of incidents , starting with the briefings given toLTG Sanchez. The briefing wasn t put out very well at all. LTC Phillabaum wasunprepared. He did a pre-brief for BG Karpinski where she pointed out things she wantedfixed, they were never fixed. In addition there were taskings BG Karpinski wanted to bedone that were never completed. I do not know if the suspension is documented. I thinkhe was thc timc away from the command to regroup and get focused again , I believewhen BG Karpinski felt LTC Phillabaum was ready he was put back in his position.MAl Dinnena took his role during the suspension.

My opinion of LTC Phillabaum is that he is not a very confident leader. I feel that hedoesn t have that leader s presence. 1 don t know the morale of the unit. I'm not certainabout the command climate; I do know his staff is Joyal to him. I believe the SGM hasheld censing session, but I don t know the outcome.

We have 3 or 4 different prisons in Baghdad that we would visit regularly, to check up ontroops, to see if they needed anything, and to let the soldier know they were notforgotton. The number one priority on the general' s list was the BCCF. Once the 20SMP Battalion took control of the BCCF the next priority would have been Camp Bucca.1 would say there was a decrease in visits after the 205tl1 took over.

Her command philosophy was to focus on the mission, keep safe at al1ltimes , and thetreatment of detainees with dignity and respect. She didn t have anything written, butafter she took command she made her stops at every unit at every site.

There has not been an abnormal amount of disciplinary actions in this unit. I have heardof all of the disciplinary actions ofthe unit. I wouldn t say that is the norm, it' s notproper conduct for anyone in uniform. BG Karpinski has been very strict towards theinfractions that have happened in the unit. I would say that leaders that have beeninvolved in some of the disciplinary incidents have either been suspended or relieved.

When BG Karpinsi visited the units after the change of command she would meet withthc Battalion Commander, and thc Company Commanders. The CSM would talk to all ofthe senior enlisted

I was in an AGR status starting October 2002 with the 306th MP battalion. I then was theAide-de-Camp for BG Hill in January 2003. Previously I was a platoon leader in thc340111 MP Company and 423rd MP Company, and I did 8yrs enlisted active duty as anliB.

I still havc the schedules that I had made for BG Karpinski.

When I accompanied the General on her command visits her main focus was the forceprotection , the force protection posture, the perimeter, needs of the Command, andsoldier s MWR issues. I believe she was aware of the problems with the S- , but the unithas been overwhelmed with awards and NCOER' s. She has also been aware of thenumerous problems with the S-4 and the problem getting supplies.

I believe reports of survey have been done for the light sets at Abu Graib. It took a longtime to get I.~ngineer support for Abu Graib , things didn t get situated to the M. l. got onground. My own opinion is that active duty got support where the reserves did not. Myopinion is that the FOB commander was supported more by LTG Sanchez than BGKarpinski. I' m not sure if LTG Sanchez lost faith in the MP' s after the briefing fromLTC Phillabaum, if so I feel that was a very harsh assumption.

I feel the BG Karpinski and LTG Sanchez had a good working relationship. I think shespoke to LTG Sanchez every 3 days or so. There were lots of request put in, and theycame back denied for different reasons. My observation was that priority went to 4ID10 I SI , or whoever else.

We would always walk through the compounds. BG Karpinski would ask the compoundstaff about population , how much space, how much food, and general detainee health andwelfare issues. She would ask about the command climate and if there was a problemwhat she could do to resolve it.

She would ask about dctainec treatment, but nothing specific to the Geneva Convention.Everyone had already received briefings and training in regards to the GenevaConvention. She would ask about the problems encountered with detainees and how theywere solved. I never saw the Geneva Convention posted, I knew there were SOP'posted. There was hand written special orders manning the guard post, the general wouldinquire and make sure the orders were up to date.

When the general was informed of detainee deaths and abuses around the compounds shewas upset. She would inquire to what exactly happened. She would then inquire aboutthe status o1'the detainees and soldiers that were involved in the various incidents.

My opinion is that the unit should receive more frequent classes on detainee treatmentand reinforcement of training in ROE.

The battalions shared lessons learned through the S- s of the Brigade , the S- s of thedifferent units would inform each other of trends they have seen and solutions they haveused. The general would hold a commander s call about once a month. I can t recall theissues that were addressed.

After an incidents had happened at the compounds , we would evaluate the who, whatwhen , why, and how to see what had to be changed. The Camp Bucca incident happened

right at the end of General Hill' s command. I believe the incident had been discussed inBG Karpinski' s commander s call.

To my knowledge the rumor of sexual misconduct between a Battalion Commander and aCaptain never made it to the level of allegations or an investigation, I am not sure if BGKarpinski was aware. The rumor was the_th Battalion Commander had a sexualencounter with her female assistant S-3. I believe that incident also took place duringGeneral Hill' s tenure.

Detainee Abuses or misconduct is reported to JAG or IG. I am not aware of any lack ofresponsiveness to commanders. People who make reports or not looked at negatively. Itwas MP' s that brought the incident in Camp Bucca to light.

To my knowledge BG Karpinkski did not withhold jurisdiction from the CFLCCCommander on any of her officer disciplinary issues. It criminal activity was committedthere were no second chances given because it was not a mistake. I would say responsesto disciplinary infractions in the command are about right on target not to lenient , not tooharsh.

Finished with their discussion, the panel gave IL T Mabry a list of items , to be addressedand brought back on a Sworn Statement. The panel then dismissed ILT Mabry

SWORN STATEMENTFnr use Df this form , see AR 19045 , the rr'Jponcnt ,)geney IS 'ODCSO~S

PRIVACY ACT STATEMENT

'JTHORITY: 1,'11-- 10 use S'or!lon 301; TIllp ') use S'ocTicJIl 2CJ51; EO. 9397 doTed Novpmber 22 , ICJ43 (SSNJ.

INCIPAl PURPOSE T" I"o'llde ,~nmll1anders and law pnforcem~nr nfflcl~ls with means by which InfnrmaTlon may be accurately'OUTlrJE U SES: ,.n" IJClal ",curiTy number is "sRd as an addl"nnali~lte maTe means of IdenTiflcaT 'on 10 ' aCliiTaTe filing and reTrievel

DISCLOSURE: DISI'II)sure of your social security number IS voluntary.I WCATION :7 DATE (YYYYMMOOJ 3 TIME FilE NUMBERC:ID11' Arif!,Ul, f\.l!\\'~i!t 15 PEB 2( \4 1800 hrs(LJ

!, lAST r~AME , FIRSl fJAMle , MIDDU:: NAME 6. SSN 7. GRADEJSTATUS!\1JhrY, ElvIS Lyddl L.. 13 OW;ANIZATION OR ACD:~ ESSgOOlh MP BOP.

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;~~iVi' I, Mc,hrv , WANT TO MAKE THE FOllOWING STATEMENT UNDER OATH:

\Vlllk sCJ'Vl!1g a.', lhc AIde- De- Camp for BG Karpinski from July 2003 until the present , I was present for almost all of her visits detention locations throughout Iraq, When BG Karpinski would arrIve a facility she would be given an update by the unit thatwas there on the cuneH( status of the facility operation. She would discuss any concerns the unit commander had and offersou!lj\lns or advise them that she would take whatever action she could to rectify the problem upon retul1ling to the 800th MP BDETOe. She wlluld ask the commander several questions concerning the detainees and their welfare, Alsc1 questlOns about the troopsv,elfarc ,md force (1l'Otectirrn. BG Karpinski would then walk around the facility and talk to the soldiers on duty to get their take onthe simarioo at that facility. BG Karpinski would ask them how they were, what kind of shift they were on , how long had theybeen on shift. what were they responsible for , how were the detainees behaving, when had the soldier called home last , what werethe cmergency procedures , did they have lethal or non-lethal in their weapon , did they check the weapons when they came on shift10 ensure what kind of rounds were in the weapon. BG Karpinski would look at the facility and point out any potential hazards forthe soldiers- detainees or possible weaknesses that would enable a detainee lu escape. BG Karpinski would also note any forceprotection issues and discuss ways to improve force protection. If there were Iraqi prison gurads working at the facility she would:nyuire about them lCi the facility commander and speak to several of them as she went through the facility- The visit would endwith a recap of what the faciEty issues were and possible solutions , and then we would retUrn to the brigade TOe or on to the nextocatil1n. As requested 1 have attached the copies of my calender that I used to maintain BG Karpinski' s schedule. The first twoeeks of January 20D4 are missing due to me not keeping track of them on a calander format , the remaining two weeks of Januaryd February are present until the day we left Baghdad, The days on which BG Karpinski gave her " Command Philosophy " was

uring the initial visit with BG Hill during the last two weeks of June 2003. T would also note that throughout the operation as themission developed , BG Karpinski would visit the facilities to ensure that the commanders at the facilities were clear on any changes0 the mission and ROE. ::1: )0 _),joT /-;;.FC-r.+LL iHE 'u'.-'It- /'i/Jt') ,)hrc of T(-IE i::

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