Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories€¦ · Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza,...

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 1

SunilShah:UgandaStoriesaninterviewwithSiimaItabaaza

InAugust1972,IdiAmin,thenpresidentofUganda,orderedtheexpulsionoftheentireAsianpopulationfromthecountry.HeaccusedthemofmistreatingindigenousUgandansandmonopolisingtheeconomy.Inthenineteenthcentury,whenUgandawasstillaBritishcolony,manysoutheasternAsianswerebroughtbytheBritishgovernmentaslabourerstoconstructtheEastAfricanrailroads.Manyhadalsoarrivedearlier,however,astradersandadministratorsintheBritishcolony.SunilShahwasthreeyearsoldwhenhisfamilywereamongthethousandsofAsiansforcedtoleaveUgandawithinninetydays.AfteralmostfortyyearsinUganda,thefamilyhadtorebuildtheirlivesintheUKwheretheysettled.In‘SunilShah:UgandaStories’,anexhibitionatthePittRiversMuseuminOxford,UK(17February–23September,2018).Shah,throughfamilyphotographsandpossessions,piecedtogetherfragmentsofhistorytoexplorehisidentityasUgandan,IndianandBritish.CroppedfamilyphotographsintheFamilyStoriesserieswerepartiallyinsertedintoframes,creatinghugewhitespacesaroundtheimages.

Sunil Shah, Untitled from the series Embassy (2015), wallpaper installation, 198cm x 153cm, courtesy the artist and Pitt Rivers Museum

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 2

Perhapsthesephotographsaremetaphorsformissingandforgottenpartsofthefamily’shistory.ImagesofobjectsbroughttotheUKbyShah’sfamilycontrastedwithobjectssuchasanantelope’sheadinablackpolythenebag.Here,theobjectsphysicalisedlossanddisplacement.TheonlytextintheexhibitionwerequotesfromtheaccountsofShah’sfatherandtwouncles.Occupyingjustoneroom,thiswasasmall,intimateexhibition.SiimaItabaazaspokewithShahatthetimeoftheexhibitionabouthisfamily’sexperiencesoftheexpulsion,andoffragmentationinrelationtotheconstructionofnarrativesandtheroleoftheartsinreimagininghistory:Siima:Couldyoutellmeaboutsomeofyourexperiencesduringtheexpulsion?Iknowthatyouwereonlythreeyearsold,butwhatmemories,ifany,standout?Howdidtheseexperiencesshapetheexhibition?Sunil:IhaveverylittledirectmemoryoftheexpulsionorofUganda–nothingbutveryvague,fuzzyimagesinmymind.PerhapssomeoftheseexistbecauseasweweregrowingupinEngland,asafamilywewouldsitandlookatthephotographsmyparentsbroughtwithusandwatchcinéfilmmydadhadfilmedinUganda.Thiswasframedbystoriesmyparentstoldusthatrecalledthepast,ourdepartureandourarrivalattherefugeecampintheUK.Thesesecondarymemorieshelpedshapemyimpressionofthathistory.Itwasneverenough,andthatiswhatpromptedmetoworkonthisproject–theironybeingthatstorytellingandusingimagescouldonlyeverfunctionfragmentally,incompletely,andneverbeanauthenticaccountoftheactualexperience.Thisispartiallywhattheprojectisabout,theimpossibilityofreally,trulyknowinganything.Siima:Throughouttheexhibition,wesawsomeincompletephotographsandbitsoftext.Ifeltthatoneofthefunctionsofthisfragmentationwastoencourageustoformourownopinionsoftheseexperiencesoftheexpulsion.Ididnotfeelanyparticularnarrativewasbeingpushed.Howimportantwasittogiveviewersspaceforinterpretationbeyondtheexperiencesofyourfamily?Sunil:Ihaveneverwantedtoholdapositiononthishistory,especiallyasIknowitisahistorythathasnowinnersorlosers.Itexistsratherasacomplexsetofsocialandpoliticalrealities,asabroaderpartofPan-Africanliberationandemancipationfromcolonialrule.Thatsaid,Ihavealsobeenveryawarethatcertainnarrativesbecomeforegroundedbythemedia,popular

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 3

cultureandbycommunitiesthemselves,thattendtosimplifyandreducehistoriesintoshortanecdotalparts.Forexample,intheex-UgandanAsiancommunitythereisanarrativeaboutlosingeverythingandthencomingtotheUKwithlittletonomoneyandbecomingasuccess.ItisaragstorichesstorythatpeopleareproudofandthateventheUKstaterecognises.Theproblem,historically,ofonlypresentingthisnarrativeisthatitisnottrueforeveryone,anditcoversoverotherstoriesandnuancedtestimoniesthatmightotherwisebeprovided.WhenIstartedpiecingthisprojecttogether,Iwantedtoallowspacefor,asyouquiterightlysaid,interpretationandimagination,aspacetocontemplateotherscenariosthanthatofmyownfamilyhistory.Atthesametime,Idon’tthinkmysubjectivityisabsentfromtheexhibition.Allalongtheway,Ihavehadtomakedecisionsaboutwhattoselect,howtoframeandhowtosequence,andIhaveneverwantedtosuggestthatmysubjectivityisnotpresentandinfulleffect.

Sunil Shah, Untitled from the series Family Stories, 2012, digital C-type, 30cm x 25cm, courtesy the artist and Pitt Rivers Museum

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 4

Siima:Howwastheexhibitionreceivedbyyourfamily?Diditcomplicatethewaythattheyseethemselvesinlightoftheexpulsion,ordiditrevealtothemaspectsofthishistorythattheyhadnotengagedwith?Sunil:Formyfamily,itwasalittleliketheexperienceoflookingthroughthefamilyalbumathomebutinaformalexhibitionspace.I’mnotsureallofthem‘got’whatIwasdoing,butforthem,itevokednostalgiaandasenseoffeelingproudandexcitedaboutourhistory.Someofthemobviouslyfeatureintheexhibition,soI’msuretherewasaslightfeelingofcelebritytoo!AnotherthingtomentionisthatmanyoftheimagesinUgandaStorieshaveadeeppersonalresonanceformembersofmyfamily.Theyknowmostofthepeopledepictedonaclosepersonallevel,sotheirreadingoftheprojectisinflectedbythatproximityinconnection.

Sunil Shah, Untitled from the series Family Stories, 2012, digital C-type, 30cm x 25cm, courtesy the artist and Pitt Rivers Museum

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 5

Siima:Itseemsasiftheywereverysupportiveandopentosharingtheirpersonalexperienceswiththepublic.Wasthissenseofopennesstherefromtheonsetordidittakesomeconvincingforthemtoagreetohavetheirpersonalexperiencesdisplayedsopublicly?Sunil:WhenIstartedtheproject,myunclesandmyfatherwerehappytohelpme.Theywereverygenerouswiththeirtimeandtheirattentiontomyquestions.WhatIfailedtorecognisequiteearlyonwasthatbypressingthemforinformation,wesometimescameacrossmemoriesthatwerepainfulortraumatic,andthatiswhenIfeltbad.Forexample,Irealisedthat,formyuncle,recountingthemurderofhisbestfriendsatthehandsofthemilitarywasadeeplypainfulmemorythatIwasaskinghimtodetailforthepurposesofmyproject.Ifeltterrible,butatthesametime,Isawthevalueinmakingsurethatpeoplewouldbeawareofwhathappenedandthatthiswaspartofthestory.Iwascarefulnottosensationalisethisbuttosubtlydropitintothesequence.

Sunil Shah, Untitled from the series Family Stories, 2012, digital C-type, 30cm x 25cm, courtesy the artist and Pitt Rivers Museum

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 6

Siima:Howdidyouavoidanysensationalising?Sunil:IthinkIdidavoidit–unlessyouthinkotherwise?Thenarrativeisbrokenupintoanumberofshortquotesrelatingtokeyeventsandcontextualinformationthatrunschronologicallythroughthework.Thatparticularstoryisnotforegroundedorhighlightedasanythingspecial,aboveandbeyondanythingelsethatispresented,andsoIdon’tthinkIsensationalisedit.Itjusthappenstobepartofasetofeventsthatoccurred.Siima:HowwouldyousaythisexhibitiondiffersfromyourpreviousworksuchasEmbassy(2015)andMakingHome(2013),whichtouchonsimilarthemes?Sunil:Isee‘UgandaStories’asakindofbroadumbrellaprojectwhichmanifestsitselfslightlydifferentlyindifferentspacesandcontexts.Ihavebeencollectingmaterial,familyphotographs,newspapers,documents,objectsandrelatedephemerasinceIstartedtheproject,soitconsistsofagrowingpersonalarchiveofmaterial.Asmyknowledgeandunderstandingofthishistorydevelops,andintheprocessofmyartpracticedeveloping,therearedifferentincarnationsoftheproject.Therehavebeenthreeexhibitionssofar,in2012and2015andnowin2018.Embassywasdevelopedin2015andhasevolvedfurthersincethen.Iseemyworkasaprocessasopposedtohavingafixednature,oritbeingdestinedforasingleformorartwork.Thisgoesagainstthegrainofthewaymostartistsworkinthattheycreateafinalworkoraseriesofworks.ButIthinkthenatureofthearchiveissomethingthatisinertuntilitbecomesactivatedatdifferentpointsintime.Eachtime,adifferentsetofconcernsandconsiderationsareaddressed.MakingHomewasnotsomuchapersonalprojectbutacommunity-ledandpubliclyfundedinitiativeinvolvingmanypeople,mostlyvolunteers.Icuratedanexhibitionofcontentproducedthroughartworks,oralhistories,publiccollections,textsandarchives.Itwasn’tmypersonalwork,butwasrepresentativeofacommunity'sexperienceandtheirengagementwiththishistory.Siima:Iwantedtotalktoyouabouttheuseofobjectsintheexhibition.Forme,thedisplayofobjectsbroughtfromUgandatotheUKphysicalisedyourfamily’suprootednessandmadetheexhibitionevenmoresensory.Inwhatwaysdoobjectsfunctionasdocuments?Howdoyouseethemworkingalongsidetextandphotographs?Sunil:Thatisaninterestingquestionandonethatneedsansweringonmorethanonelevel.Initially,Isawmypracticeasincorporatingonlythemediumofphotography.Iwasrephotographingphotographsandobjects.ButthemoreIthoughtabouttheideaof'the

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 7

photographic’,themoreIstartedtoquestiontheroleofthephotograph.Whywasthereaneedtophotographsomethingiftheobjectwasinterestinginitself?Iwasalsobeginningtobeinfluencedbyandinterestedinconceptualart,particularlythe‘readymades’ofMarcelDuchamp,whofirstquestionedtheideaofanartworkandwhatitcouldbe.Therefore,Idecidedthatwhenpresentedintheformatofanexhibition,Icouldpresenttheobjectinsteadofaphotographofit.Theobjectsserveasmetaphorsforlossandthelegacyofcolonialtimes.Theseobjectshavenopracticaluseanymore,andinthecaseoftheantelope’shead,itwasdiscoveredinmyuncle’sloftinablackbinliner.Therefore,itseemedappropriatetopresenttheobjectassuch,insidetheverybinlinerinwhichitwasstored.Idon’tthinktheobjectsfunctionasdocuments,theyaremorerepositoriesofaffect,experienceandmemory.Alongsidethetextandphotographs,Ithinktheyaddanotherlayerofmeaningtotheprojectasawhole.

Sunil Shah, Reification III, 2015, mixed media, dimensions variable, courtesy the artist and Pitt Rivers Museum

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 8

Siima:Wordscandictatethewayweinteractwithandprocessimages.Sometimesthewaythatweviewanimagecanberestrictedbythetextthataccompaniesit.Wasthiseveraconcernasyouwereputtingtheexhibitiontogether?Howdoyouseeimagesandtextworkingtogether?Sunil:Absolutely,textwasaconcern.Whenplacedalongsidephotographs,wordsprettymuchnailthemeaningonewantstoimpartandthiswassomethingIwantedtoresisttoacertaindegree.Iwantedviewerstoremainopentointerpretationandprojecttheirownimaginations.Therefore,Idecidednottocaptionthephotographsdirectlyandinsteadusetheinterviewquotesas‘floating’textthatwouldbeplacednearby,butnotappendedtoanyoneimage.Therewerealsootherconsiderationstomakeforthetext:howmuchorlittletosay,howtotranslateIndianwords(iftheywereused)andhowtoimpartmyrelatives’brokenEnglishandpoliticalincorrectness.Intheend,Ihadtocometotermswiththefactthattheediting,selectingandframingofthetextaroundtheimageswereallmychoicesandsotherewasalwaysadisjunctbetweenwhatwassaidintheinterviewandwhatwaspresented.However,Iamnotpresentingthisasafactualdocument,moreasetoffragmentedfictionsbasedonreality.Siima:HowwouldyousituatetheexhibitioninthecontextofthecurrentrefugeecrisisinEurope?Sunil:I’mnotsureIwouldinadirectway,butperhapsthereareaspectsthatarerelated.Ithinkthereisalwaysatendencytoalignmigrantanddiasporicexperiencesincommonalities.Eachexperienceofdisplacementinvolvesasetofpoliticalandsocialcircumstancesuniquetothateventorperiodofpoliticalhistory,notonlyintermsofthesourcenation,butalsointermsofhowtheexperienceevolvesinthehostdestinationnation.Intermsoftheactualrefugeecrisishappeningnow,itisamuchlargerhumanitariandisasteraffectingpeoplefrommultiplecountries.TheUgandanAsianexpulsionaffectedaroundeightythousandpeopleoverathreetosixmonthperiodofconcentratedmovement,andwasperformedwiththeassistanceoftheUKandothergovernmentswhocametothehelpoftherefugees.ThiswasbecausemanyUgandanAsiansheldBritishpassports,orsomethingsimilarcalled‘BritishProtectoratestatus’thataffordedcertainrights.TherefugeesstrandedintheMediterraneanfromNorthAfricaorAsiahavelittletonosovereignrightsandthismeansamuchmoredifficultprocessoftransition,migrationandsettlementanywhere.Itisamuchmoreserioussituationnow.Ifmyworkshowsanything,itisalookbacktoadistantpastinwhichthepassageoftimehasallowedaspaceforreflectionandcontemplation.Asimilarperiodoftimewouldhavetopassbeforewecanmakeanyrealcomparisonsbetweenthesituations.AlthoughIhavenodoubtthatthe

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 9

memoriesofbettertimesforthoseintransitnow,orthosewhohaverecentlyresettledelsewhere,musthavesimilaritiesintermsoftrauma,loss,melancholyandnostalgia.Siima:HowdoyourelatetheexhibitiontotheinterpretationandimaginationoftheUgandanAsiandiaspora?Sunil:IthinktherelationIhavetotheUgandanAsianhistoryisasyouseeit.Intermsofhowthewiderdiasporamightrelatetoit,Idon’tknow.Ihopethattheymaydrawfromitsomememoriesthataretheirown,andthatitmayhelpthemexpandtheirnarrativebeyondthatoftheassumedsuccessesofUgandanAsianshereintheUK.Overtheyears,IhavehadgoodresponsesfromtheUgandanAsiancommunity.ManylookbackatUgandawithagreatdealoffondnessandremembranceofthegoodtimes,thegoodpeopleandtheeasygoinglifestyletheyhadthere.Theylovedthecountry.IhavemetafewwhobecameverydepressedintheUKandneverreallyacceptedtheUKastheirnewhome.Finally,therearethesecondandthirdgenerationsofAsianchildrenwhowanttolearnaboutthispastandunderstandthelivesoftheirparentsandgrandparents;theyfinditafascinatingandrichhistory,fullofstories.

Sunil Shah, Untitled from the series Family Stories, 2012, digital C-type, 30cm x 25cm,

courtesy the artist and Pitt Rivers Museum

Sunil Shah: Uganda Stories, interview with Siima Itabaaza, published online 12 December 2018 10

Siima:Forme,theexhibitionwasahugeeye-openerabouthowlittleIknowofthatpartofUgandanhistory.ItmademerealisethatinUganda,whereIgrewup,theexpulsionofUgandanAsianswasonlyframedinsocio-politicalways,i.e.questionsofownershipoftheeconomy.Inschool,wewerenevertaughtabouttheexpulsioninrelationtoquestionsofidentity,homeandmigration.HaveyouthoughtofexhibitinginUganda?Why,orwhynot?Sunil:Yes,itistheprevalenceofcertainnarrativesandpreconceptionsthatneedstobechallengedthroughnewperspectives.Iguessthatiswhattheartscando:helppeoplethinkbeyondwhatiseitherpresentedtothemthroughpopularmedia,culture,everydayconsciousnessandevenstatepropaganda.Thequestionofownershipoftheeconomyisalargepartofthathistoryandonethatneedsknowingandunderstanding,butwhentherearestrongideologicalnarratives,otherimportanthistories,perspectivesandexperiencesbecomereducedorobliterated.Ihavenevershown‘UgandaStories’inUganda.Iwouldlikethatverymuch,buttheopportunityhasnotpresenteditselfyet.IhavealsonotshowntheworkinanUgandanAsiancommunitysuchasLeicester,whichisonmyradarasapotentialsiteofdissemination.______________________________________________________________________________

SunilShah(b.1969)isanartist,curatorandwriterbasedinOxford,UK.HehasaBAinphotographyfromtheUniversityofWestminsterandaMAinhistoryofartfromBirkbeck,UniversityofLondon.Shah’sworkhasbeenshownatThePhotographersGalleryinLondon,BrightonPhotoFringe,andNewArtExchange,Nottingham.Hehasalsocuratedorco-curatedexhibitionsatthePittRiversMuseum,RoyalGeographicSociety,theRoyalInstituteofBritishArchitects,BrightonPhotoFringeandNewArtExchange.HeisAssociateEditorofAmericanSuburbX(ASX)onlinevisualcultureplatform,andhaspublishedessays,reviewsandinterviewsthereandinSourcePhotographicReviewandtheLondonArtHistorySocietyReview.______________________________________________________________________________

Siima Itabaaza is a writer from Kampala, Uganda. She holds a bachelor’s degree in International

Development and Politics from the University of Manchester, and in 2015 completed her master’s

degree in African Studies at the School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS) in London. Her master’s

dissertation was entitled ‘Being the “Big Man”: The Role of Performativity and Aesthetic Elements in

“Big Man” Politics in Uganda’. Her work has been published online for The London Magazine, gal-

dem.com and Flux Magazine. Siima has featured in panel discussions at the ‘Film Africa’ and ‘ourselves

+ others: african feminist re-CREATIONS’ festivals. She is also a co-founder of Tom-bebe-sa, a

platform that explores the intergenerational impact of migration among African and Caribbean

diasporas.